E46 M3 - How compromised are they?

[Neil1b24]

I will soon be buying my first M car, an E46 M3 Coupe. Looking for a manual, 2004 to 2005 with 18's preferably.

I'm coming from a lovely and rather rare 98 E39 528i with factory sport package (Xenons, DSP, BBS Style 5's & De-chrome) from the days before the M5 bumpers were introduced. It was bought for little more than shed money after I sold an E46 tourer to release some cash for a house. It has been the best car I have ever owned. Amazingly competent and still looks great.

The car has made me appreciate smoothness, waft-ability and solidity when not pushing on. Not something I thought would appeal at 26, but I will miss it.

I have considered a E39 M5 as being able to deliver some of this with added M goodness, a decent compromise. However, I have a wide-arch-bonnet-bulge-M-straight-6 itch that needs scratching.

Keeping the E39 as second car is off the cards, my girlfriend needs a run around for a short town based commute. We have an Audi A2 lined up for this.

I appreciate an M3 will be no limousine and is a different animal to the E39. I'm looking forward to the noise when the mood takes me, but want to know that it isn't going to inherently creak, rattle and shake when things settle down.

My question is, how do M3 owners rate refinement? Some argue that the E46 pushed the M3 into the GT category, would you agree?

Cheers.

[shim]

No.

E39M5 was the best car I never had.

[gaz1234]

Not driven the e39 but believe its a better all rounder.

[E30M3SE]

Go and drive a M3 on 18" wheels, as that's as wafty as a M3 will get, if that's not wafty enough for you then as already said above, E39 M5.

[Shaoxter]

They're different sizes and classes of cars for different purposes. If all you're gonna be doing is wafting then you're probably better off sticking to a 5 or 7 series. The ride is generally harder on M cars even at their softest setting. But best way really for you to decide would be to try one out.

[kel176506]

I had a E46 M3 on the 19" wheels and found it to be quite crashy (if thats a word) at lower speeds around town and on particularly bumpy rutted roads. I was always tempted to try and get a set of 18" wheels to see if this improved the ride quality but in all honesty it really isn't that bad. Your right in not expecting a limousine but it's not too stiff and the suspension copes well i think personally. At speed i found it to be incredibly comfortable and did quite a few european road trips spending 4hrs at the wheel and not having any issues. The exhaust doesn't drone and is the right balance of noise when you want it and quiet when you don't. This probably goes some way to suggest it is a GT car and the level of comfort provided by the driving position and seats was excellent.

In terms of squeaks, rattles and vibrations again i thought for a car (mine was a 2002) it was really good but expect age related noises to be there. The only thing i ever noticed was the wind noise caused by the rubber door surrounds not sealing perfectly due to age/splitting around the windows. New seals would of cured this but they are a fortune and hard to get hold of. If you have the time most rattles/squeaks can be cured with the right foam/rubber/silicon spray isolation.

I still believe it's the best car i have owned.

[Neil1b24]

Thanks for the responses. My only real experience with the M3 is on a track day which only gives an insight into one part of the cars character.

I may now go out and look for some test drive opportunities with both to test my commitment to the M3.

This hadn't been part of my original plan as I had intended to buy at auction. Over the last couple of weeks some nice late model e46 M3s had been coming through, fairly clean and without aftermarket tat at BCA.

It seems like common sense given that many of the dealer cars I see still have the tell tail rectangular barcode sticker the corner of the windscreen from auctions.

I had budgeted £9.5k to by the newest possible. £7.5k for a 05 car based on clean CAP prices and 100k miles, with a £2k kitty to blow on a tidying, a good service and subframe resin injection from MProve.

[kel176506]

I think your budget is spot on and it sounds like you already know about the issue with the subframe floor (make sure its either been done or will be covered by BMW because it is a huge repair if not). If you can stretch to it a CS edition is a special place to be and in my opinion going to be a future classic, not in the realms of a CSL (appreciating in valve) but you get a lot of the benefits without the compromises they have.

[Neil1b24]

kel176506 said:

I think your budget is spot on and it sounds like you already know about the issue with the subframe floor (make sure its either been done or will be covered by BMW because it is a huge repair if not). If you can stretch to it a CS edition is a special place to be and in my opinion going to be a future classic, not in the realms of a CSL (appreciating in valve) but you get a lot of the benefits without the compromises they have.

Thanks for this and your earlier post, exactly the insight I wanted.

I've researched it to death! Almost seems like an anti climax buying one now! I would love a CS and would sell a kidney for a CSL. Just have to see what comes up. I had my fingers burnt on finance a few years ago on a Merc CLK so I'm working with a strict cash budget.

Also thought about replacing the cooling system. Turner Motorsport in the US do a OEM Rad, water pump, hose, pulley, belt and thermostat package for less than £900 which is should give me piece of mind. Little bit OCD on the maintenance front, dealer prices never really give you that comfort or spare cash to make it happen.

Here's my £2k to do list, all but the cooling system and tyres are DIY.

Falken FK453 Rear 255/40/18 & Front 225/45/18 - £567 Camskill
Oil Filter, Air Filter, Plugs, Oil, Fuel Filter, Transmission Oil, Diff Oil, Brake Fluid, Diff Plugs - £210 Turner Motorsport
Vanos Filter - £15 Turner Motorsport
Red-line limited slip differential friction modifier additive x1 - £15 - Opie
Triple QX Dextron III 1L P/S fluid- £5.28 - ECP
Cooling System Overhaul (Rad, Hoses, Water Pump, Gaskets, T'stat) + Power Pulley Kit, Fan Clutch, AC Belt, Temp Sensor £870 Turner MS
Molyslip Engine & Gearbox - £24 Halfords
Halfords Electrical Contact (MAF) Cleaner - £3.99
Subframe Reinforcement - £295 - Mprove

Besian Systems Vanos overhaul will follow along with a suspension/ brake refresh.

Edited by Neil1b24 on Sunday 12th January 12:11

[Leins]

Can fully recommend MProve for subframe strengthening, as they did this as a preventative measure on my CSL last year. Matt there is a gent to deal with too

Be careful of interior mirror leakage too, worth getting the gel replaced

[gaz1234]

Leins said:

Can fully recommend MProve for subframe strengthening, as they did this as a preventative measure on my CSL last year. Matt there is a gent to deal with too

Be careful of interior mirror leakage too, worth getting the gel replaced

Mirror?

[Leins]

gaz1234 said:

Mirror?

Manufacturing fault in the E39/E46 oval auto-dimming mirror, resulting in a lot of them leaking an acid all over the interior. Sometimes it gives a warning with a bubble that can be seen beforehand, others just dump out their contents. Many think it's more likely to happen when the car is left outside in strong sunshine. I wasn't prepared to risk it anyway, so had the sealed glass replaced in mine

[Babw]

I love my E46 M3 but if I had to drive it daily it would have long gone by now!

By modern car standards the insulation and refinement is basically crap.

The wind noise, lumpiness when cold, noisy engine when just cruising along, diff noise, brake noise and the frankly agriculture SMG box makes it great fun as an occasional driver but not as a daily.

[shim]

Babw said:

I love my E46 M3 but if I had to drive it daily it would have long gone by now!

By modern car standards the insulation and refinement is basically crap.

The wind noise, lumpiness when cold, noisy engine when just cruising along, diff noise, brake noise and the frankly agriculture SMG box makes it great fun as an occasional driver but not as a daily.

Omg.

[bennyboysvuk]

Babw said:

I love my E46 M3 but if I had to drive it daily it would have long gone by now!

By modern car standards the insulation and refinement is basically crap.

The wind noise, lumpiness when cold, noisy engine when just cruising along, diff noise, brake noise and the frankly agriculture SMG box makes it great fun as an occasional driver but not as a daily.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's crap. I removed some insulation to allow more exhaust noise through. I thought the ride on 18s was quite good for a car of this type too. An E39 M5 feels more cushioned, but it's nowhere near as pointy as the M3 in the twisties.

I think the issue with driving it every day will be that the engine is so wonderful to use as intended that you end up using it like that and driving everywhere with a smile on your face, but very briskly indeed.

[N7GTX]

Babw said:

I love my E46 M3 but if I had to drive it daily it would have long gone by now!

By modern car standards the insulation and refinement is basically crap.

The wind noise, lumpiness when cold, noisy engine when just cruising along, diff noise, brake noise and the frankly agriculture SMG box makes it great fun as an occasional driver but not as a daily.

I think there is too much insulation, too much refinement and not enough noise.

All the way to the Performance car show and back I had to put up with her indoors and could hear her all too easily.
Next time going in the Cerb then it will be bliss.

[161BMW]

Leins said:

Manufacturing fault in the E39/E46 oval auto-dimming mirror, resulting in a lot of them leaking an acid all over the interior. Sometimes it gives a warning with a bubble that can be seen beforehand, others just dump out their contents. Many think it's more likely to happen when the car is left outside in strong sunshine. I wasn't prepared to risk it anyway, so had the sealed glass replaced in mine

How did u get yours sorted ?
What are the options to get it sorted ?
Is it defo due to strong sunshine ?

[Leins]

161BMW said:

How did u get yours sorted ?
What are the options to get it sorted ?
Is it defo due to strong sunshine ?

Mine didn't actually leak or show any signs of it, I was just a bit paranoid. Took it out a couple of years ago and sent it to this crowd in the US: http://www.radar-mirror.com/Mirror_Repair.html

Got it back 10 days later, put it back in and it's been perfect since. Didn't fancy having to buy a new interior so was worth it for the peace of mind for me

[SuperVM]

Leins said:

161BMW said:

How did u get yours sorted ?
What are the options to get it sorted ?
Is it defo due to strong sunshine ?

Mine didn't actually leak or show any signs of it, I was just a bit paranoid. Took it out a couple of years ago and sent it to this crowd in the US: http://www.radar-mirror.com/Mirror_Repair.html

Got it back 10 days later, put it back in and it's been perfect since. Didn't fancy having to buy a new interior so was worth it for the peace of mind for me

I believe you can also use the older style square mirror as a replacement, these are between £10 and £20 on eBay second hand.

[philis]

I just sold my e46 m3 for a 335d.
I did 30k business miles in the m3 and never really had a complaint about the comfort levels although it was never particularly comfortable, the seats were my biggest gripe as the leather was too hard and slippy, the only cabin rattles came from the back seats/parcel shelf.
1 week in the 335d and im really appreciating the seats and driving position but hating the runflats, at speed over bumps the 335 looses it where as the m3 would come into its own and just flatten out any potholes.
18inch wheels are a must if your spending any decent amount of time in the m3
i will probably end up with another before long