Integrale Advice
Discussion
Good Afternoon - I'm looking to buy myself an Integrale - I've been a fan for a long long time and driven a couple in the past. I've been mainly into Porsches and VW's for most of my driving life but feel the time has come for Integrale ownership.
I've read quite a lot and followed the yellow Integrale ownership diary by Harry Metcalfe in Evo magazine prior to him leaving.
Any advice re the best model to buy i.e EVO 1 or 2 ? What to look out for when buying ? which are the best dealers to use/buy from ? Any recommendation of someone to inspect a car ? etc etc etc would be gratefully received.
In the past ( some years ago) I tried a car at Walkers whom I found to be very helpful and I know have an excellent reputation - however they only have what appears to be an ex rally car in stock at the moment. I read in EVO that Harry Metcalfe bought his yellow Evo 2 from "WR sales" (?) in Bradford ( which gave me a little more confidence to perhaps use them , I did call them re the yellow car they have for sale but apparently they've taken a deposit on it ) Also I've seen a yellow Evo at "Moto cars" but they don't seem to answer the phone !
Does anyone have experience of these dealers or can you recommend others ?
I found the Integrale to appear a little "flimsy" by comparison to the German cars I've owned - presumably just something to live with and get used to ! ( I have owned a few Ferrari s and I suppose on reflection the quality of switchgear etc was similar)
To summarise any help would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Steve
I've read quite a lot and followed the yellow Integrale ownership diary by Harry Metcalfe in Evo magazine prior to him leaving.
Any advice re the best model to buy i.e EVO 1 or 2 ? What to look out for when buying ? which are the best dealers to use/buy from ? Any recommendation of someone to inspect a car ? etc etc etc would be gratefully received.
In the past ( some years ago) I tried a car at Walkers whom I found to be very helpful and I know have an excellent reputation - however they only have what appears to be an ex rally car in stock at the moment. I read in EVO that Harry Metcalfe bought his yellow Evo 2 from "WR sales" (?) in Bradford ( which gave me a little more confidence to perhaps use them , I did call them re the yellow car they have for sale but apparently they've taken a deposit on it ) Also I've seen a yellow Evo at "Moto cars" but they don't seem to answer the phone !
Does anyone have experience of these dealers or can you recommend others ?
I found the Integrale to appear a little "flimsy" by comparison to the German cars I've owned - presumably just something to live with and get used to ! ( I have owned a few Ferrari s and I suppose on reflection the quality of switchgear etc was similar)
To summarise any help would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Steve
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 12th January 17:48
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 12th January 17:51
I'll try and give some advice:
Evo 1 or 2 ? Depends how much cash you've got
Evo 2s tend to be quiet a bit more despite not being that different. They were instant collector cars and even "standard" cars were sold in similar low numbers to the special editions.
Buy a car which hasn't been modified to much. Improved boost of around 250bhp is fine but anymore needs looking at.
Updated suspension can be to much for the shell and lead to cracks around the front of the door opening etc, pull the rubber seal back to check.
Look out for rust,particularly at the rear of the roof, just in front of the spoiler and around front and rear wimdows.
Forums like CLS are great, I found Evocorner full of people spoiling for a fight!
Tank Barrett is a well respected specialist and inspected mine for me although I had to arrange for the owner to take it there.
Loads more to look out for but I'm sure you'll love it if you by carefully.
Evo 1 or 2 ? Depends how much cash you've got
Evo 2s tend to be quiet a bit more despite not being that different. They were instant collector cars and even "standard" cars were sold in similar low numbers to the special editions.Buy a car which hasn't been modified to much. Improved boost of around 250bhp is fine but anymore needs looking at.
Updated suspension can be to much for the shell and lead to cracks around the front of the door opening etc, pull the rubber seal back to check.
Look out for rust,particularly at the rear of the roof, just in front of the spoiler and around front and rear wimdows.
Forums like CLS are great, I found Evocorner full of people spoiling for a fight!
Tank Barrett is a well respected specialist and inspected mine for me although I had to arrange for the owner to take it there.
Loads more to look out for but I'm sure you'll love it if you by carefully.
Edited by stuartmmcfc on Sunday 12th January 19:33
Good advice from Stuart. There tends to be rust under the side sills - problem is it's hard to see without taking off the sills and often these just fall apart so probably not a good idea on someone else's car
Personally in your position I would be looking for privately owned cars as I prefer to learn as much as I can about the owner. Most cars still alive now tend to be the better looked after ones. 5-10 years ago there was much more of a mixture.
Re the bodyshell, if the car has uprated suspension or 17" wheels, look for underbody strengthening bars. You can sort many of the inherent structural issues with cross bracing and the like. Many enthusiast owners tend to have upgraded their cars sympathetically (often because originals are simply not available). Turbos, fuel pumps, exhausts - all of these and more can be mildly upgraded without detriment elsewhere. I would suggest closer to 280bhp is comfortable territory for 'stage 1' and the car remains very tractable and everyday-friendly.
Re Evo 1 vs Evo 2, bear in mind that although Evo 2s commmand a substantial price difference, it was only the Evo 1 that actually competed. The 1 has an old-fashioned turbo which can feel a bit of a throwback and many owners will have junked it. The 2 has a nicer interior (high back Recaros), a cat, and some nifty touches like the fuel filler cap. Other than that, they're basically the same car.
Personally in your position I would be looking for privately owned cars as I prefer to learn as much as I can about the owner. Most cars still alive now tend to be the better looked after ones. 5-10 years ago there was much more of a mixture.
Re the bodyshell, if the car has uprated suspension or 17" wheels, look for underbody strengthening bars. You can sort many of the inherent structural issues with cross bracing and the like. Many enthusiast owners tend to have upgraded their cars sympathetically (often because originals are simply not available). Turbos, fuel pumps, exhausts - all of these and more can be mildly upgraded without detriment elsewhere. I would suggest closer to 280bhp is comfortable territory for 'stage 1' and the car remains very tractable and everyday-friendly.
Re Evo 1 vs Evo 2, bear in mind that although Evo 2s commmand a substantial price difference, it was only the Evo 1 that actually competed. The 1 has an old-fashioned turbo which can feel a bit of a throwback and many owners will have junked it. The 2 has a nicer interior (high back Recaros), a cat, and some nifty touches like the fuel filler cap. Other than that, they're basically the same car.
Thanks very much for the replies - I feel that an EVO2 is the way I'd like to go. I'd like to pay around £25,000ish max and hope I could get a good car for around that price. There's a yellow ( Giallo ?) car with 18,000 miles on at a company called "Moto Cars" - aside from seeing their advertising on P/H I have no experience of them. Has anyone bought from them ? I'm inclined to think that at 18,000 miles it may be more than £25k but on the converse side it's only going to be a weekend car ( used alongside a few others) so I won't put a massive amount of miles on it - not buying for investment I'm buying for enjoyment but it'd be nice to know it would hold it's price in future. Additionally from reading the Harry Metcalfe article there seem to be only around 220 of this model produced so seemingly fairly rare.
Are all spares/parts easily available to maintain them ?
Are all spares/parts easily available to maintain them ?
sng45 said:
Thanks very much for the replies - I feel that an EVO2 is the way I'd like to go. I'd like to pay around £25,000ish max and hope I could get a good car for around that price. There's a yellow ( Giallo ?) car with 18,000 miles on at a company called "Moto Cars" - aside from seeing their advertising on P/H I have no experience of them. Has anyone bought from them ? I'm inclined to think that at 18,000 miles it may be more than £25k but on the converse side it's only going to be a weekend car ( used alongside a few others) so I won't put a massive amount of miles on it - not buying for investment I'm buying for enjoyment but it'd be nice to know it would hold it's price in future. Additionally from reading the Harry Metcalfe article there seem to be only around 220 of this model produced so seemingly fairly rare.
Are all spares/parts easily available to maintain them ?
I've no experience of Moto cars but "wanted" adds on the forums worked well with me - that's how I found my Lagos.Are all spares/parts easily available to maintain them ?
Don't be taken in with the numbers, most of the colours were made in similar numbers ( my Lagos was one of 250) . Colour is a personal thing though.
Most cars seem to be around the 50-60k m as people do use them even though they are cherished.
I think a18k m example from a dealer would be some what more than £25k but I'm happy to be proved wrong
I never had problems with parts but as it wasn't used much they didn't wear out! Panels are a different matter!
I once fitted a starter button and was surprised at the quality of the wiring. As said plastic trim is flimsy .
Harris_I said:
Don't put too much premium on low mileage. Unused cars can give you more problems than regularly used ones, especially anything made of rubber.
i think you're right.Because they're loved they're looked after. Have a look at the 45k one on the other integrale thread thats running. It looks like its just come out of the showroom and thats fairly usual for these cars.
I bought mine around 18months ago. Evo 2, red
Looked at a few private ones, and one from another dealer which didn't stand up to their descriptions. In the end, called up Walkers and they sourced me one, within 24hrs, from a customer they knew was thinking about selling.
It had done 60k miles but in amazing condition and Walkers had done all the work on it for the last few years, so knew all about it.
They did a full service and tidy up of small issues before delivery, and I've had no problems, (other than a slight oil leak, which I fixed with some new gaskets, but could easily have lived with). Price was £24k, which was around 2-4 more than the others I've looked at, but was well worth the extra, IMO.
Looked at a few private ones, and one from another dealer which didn't stand up to their descriptions. In the end, called up Walkers and they sourced me one, within 24hrs, from a customer they knew was thinking about selling.
It had done 60k miles but in amazing condition and Walkers had done all the work on it for the last few years, so knew all about it.
They did a full service and tidy up of small issues before delivery, and I've had no problems, (other than a slight oil leak, which I fixed with some new gaskets, but could easily have lived with). Price was £24k, which was around 2-4 more than the others I've looked at, but was well worth the extra, IMO.
Edited by footsoldier on Saturday 18th January 21:14
I was lucky enough to win the Pistonheads competition on here, which was a massive helping hand towards my Integrale.
I went for a Evo 2 Limited Edition, the Dealers Collection.
I wanted to combine getting the car of my dreams with an investment too, which I think limited editions offer.
I ended up buying privately, which I often do as I find you get a better feel for how the cars been looked after. I personally buy on condition over mileage. Mines done higher than most but has been looked after far better than any of the others I saw! Mine literally has a folder for every piece of work its had, totalling about £36k!
I wanted a UK car too, purely as some of the imported versions histories weren't up to scratch.
In terms of specialists, I'd thoroughly recommend Tanc Barratt who helpfully knew my car and were able to comment on what good condition it's in! I found Auto Integrale helpful too.
Wish you the best of luck in your search, will take a while but so worth it!
I went for a Evo 2 Limited Edition, the Dealers Collection.
I wanted to combine getting the car of my dreams with an investment too, which I think limited editions offer.
I ended up buying privately, which I often do as I find you get a better feel for how the cars been looked after. I personally buy on condition over mileage. Mines done higher than most but has been looked after far better than any of the others I saw! Mine literally has a folder for every piece of work its had, totalling about £36k!
I wanted a UK car too, purely as some of the imported versions histories weren't up to scratch.
In terms of specialists, I'd thoroughly recommend Tanc Barratt who helpfully knew my car and were able to comment on what good condition it's in! I found Auto Integrale helpful too.
Wish you the best of luck in your search, will take a while but so worth it!
Hi Steve,
After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
My advice would be contact the following people and let them know what you are after:
Tanc Barrett or Paul on 01299 266355
Nick Fieldhouse (Kankku) nick@kankku.co.uk 01539 447414 I know when he was looking for me he knew of 2 cars that he was trying to get the owners to part with.
Keith at Auto-Integrale 01189 710281.
I also know of someone who maybe be getting a dealer collection in with around 50-60000miles but I think they want £35k for it.
I have also been offered a Giallo Ginestra with 74000km supposedly a one owner car from Japan. The guy importing it no longer wants it. PM me if your interested and I am happy to give you the details, I am no means affiliated to any of these people just happy to help.
Cheers
Sunny
After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
My advice would be contact the following people and let them know what you are after:
Tanc Barrett or Paul on 01299 266355
Nick Fieldhouse (Kankku) nick@kankku.co.uk 01539 447414 I know when he was looking for me he knew of 2 cars that he was trying to get the owners to part with.
Keith at Auto-Integrale 01189 710281.
I also know of someone who maybe be getting a dealer collection in with around 50-60000miles but I think they want £35k for it.
I have also been offered a Giallo Ginestra with 74000km supposedly a one owner car from Japan. The guy importing it no longer wants it. PM me if your interested and I am happy to give you the details, I am no means affiliated to any of these people just happy to help.
Cheers
Sunny
Edited by sunnym3 on Sunday 19th January 18:20
sunnym3 said:
Hi Steve,
After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
I say this with all sincerity and not wanting to talk up the value of these amazing cars (I intend never to sell mine, so value matters little to me), but I've been very fortunate to have owned and driven all sorts of amazing supercars and race cars. The only car that has made me feel the way my 'grale does is a track prepped 996 GT3. As good as the Challenge Stradale is, you have not short-changed yourself by getting the Lancia instead.After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
In years to come, when we will all be in electrically powered self-driven pods that take us to our destinations by punching in a postcode and sitting back, the 'grale will be spoken of in the same context as the '73 2.7RS and the F40.
Cheers Harris,
I have just read your profile and I see you have strengthened the chassis, could you possibly advise what was done? I also have coilovers on my car but have added a set of 17" Speedlines so think I should also look at the strengthening side of things.
Steve,
I just found a message from another forum member who is planning on selling his Perlato car. The guy has owned it for over 10 years and has had a full respray (windows out, doors removed etc) if your interested let me know. I think it's covered 85000 miles and has had the top and bottom end rebuild.
I have just read your profile and I see you have strengthened the chassis, could you possibly advise what was done? I also have coilovers on my car but have added a set of 17" Speedlines so think I should also look at the strengthening side of things.
Steve,
I just found a message from another forum member who is planning on selling his Perlato car. The guy has owned it for over 10 years and has had a full respray (windows out, doors removed etc) if your interested let me know. I think it's covered 85000 miles and has had the top and bottom end rebuild.
Edited by sunnym3 on Sunday 19th January 23:04
Hi,
I ended up buying privately, which I often do as I find you get a better feel for how the cars been looked after. I personally buy on condition over mileage. Mines done higher than most but has been looked after far better than any of the others I saw! Mine literally has a folder for every piece of work its had, totalling about £36k!
Did I spend that much on my Lancia!!
I am just buying another to do a bare shell rebuild, I better see if I can sell another kidney!
Tanc & Keith are very helpful chaps, condition of the shell is the most important thing to look at, everything else is easy to sort.
I ended up buying privately, which I often do as I find you get a better feel for how the cars been looked after. I personally buy on condition over mileage. Mines done higher than most but has been looked after far better than any of the others I saw! Mine literally has a folder for every piece of work its had, totalling about £36k!
Did I spend that much on my Lancia!!
I am just buying another to do a bare shell rebuild, I better see if I can sell another kidney!
Tanc & Keith are very helpful chaps, condition of the shell is the most important thing to look at, everything else is easy to sort.
sunnym3 said:
Cheers Harris,
I have just read your profile and I see you have strengthened the chassis, could you possibly advise what was done? I also have coilovers on my car but have added a set of 17" Speedlines so think I should also look at the strengthening side of things.
I bought the lower suspension bars and rear upper strut brace from Keith at Auto Integrale. The front bars also tend to protect the underbody against bumps and scrapes on the worst roads.I have just read your profile and I see you have strengthened the chassis, could you possibly advise what was done? I also have coilovers on my car but have added a set of 17" Speedlines so think I should also look at the strengthening side of things.
sunnym3 said:
Hi Steve,
After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
My advice would be contact the following people and let them know what you are after:
Tanc Barrett or Paul on 01299 266355
Nick Fieldhouse (Kankku) nick@kankku.co.uk 01539 447414 I know when he was looking for me he knew of 2 cars that he was trying to get the owners to part with.
Keith at Auto-Integrale 01189 710281.
I also know of someone who maybe be getting a dealer collection in with around 50-60000miles but I think they want £35k for it.
I have also been offered a Giallo Ginestra with 74000km supposedly a one owner car from Japan. The guy importing it no longer wants it. PM me if your interested and I am happy to give you the details, I am no means affiliated to any of these people just happy to help.
Cheers
Sunny
Hi Sunny After having dreams of buying a challenge stradale dashed (wife gave me a reality check). I decided to buy another one of my all time favourites an Integrale a Evo 2 in Giallo Ginestra. I purchased the car last week from Keith at Auto-Integrale. The car is mint and only covered 60000miles from new.
My advice would be contact the following people and let them know what you are after:
Tanc Barrett or Paul on 01299 266355
Nick Fieldhouse (Kankku) nick@kankku.co.uk 01539 447414 I know when he was looking for me he knew of 2 cars that he was trying to get the owners to part with.
Keith at Auto-Integrale 01189 710281.
I also know of someone who maybe be getting a dealer collection in with around 50-60000miles but I think they want £35k for it.
I have also been offered a Giallo Ginestra with 74000km supposedly a one owner car from Japan. The guy importing it no longer wants it. PM me if your interested and I am happy to give you the details, I am no means affiliated to any of these people just happy to help.
Cheers
Sunny
Edited by sunnym3 on Sunday 19th January 18:20
Thanks for your reply ( sounds like your car is the one shown in the advert - looks fantastic !) Appreciate you taking the time to detail numbers etc I'll call the dealers you mentioned this week. I'd certainly appreciate the numbers of the private sellers you mentioned - I'll send a PM with my e-mail details
Thanks again
Steve
Harris_I said:
I say this with all sincerity and not wanting to talk up the value of these amazing cars (I intend never to sell mine, so value matters little to me), but I've been very fortunate to have owned and driven all sorts of amazing supercars and race cars. The only car that has made me feel the way my 'grale does is a track prepped 996 GT3. As good as the Challenge Stradale is, you have not short-changed yourself by getting the Lancia instead.
In years to come, when we will all be in electrically powered self-driven pods that take us to our destinations by punching in a postcode and sitting back, the 'grale will be spoken of in the same context as the '73 2.7RS and the F40.
Funnily enough I've owned four 2.7 RS's and a 997GT3 and tried to buy an F40 some years ago ( before I got "flicked" by the dealer in Switzerland who told the seller he had a private buyer and then bought it himself !) which is still the fastest car I've ever been in ! In years to come, when we will all be in electrically powered self-driven pods that take us to our destinations by punching in a postcode and sitting back, the 'grale will be spoken of in the same context as the '73 2.7RS and the F40.
Everything I've read about Integrales has been good and I really feel it's better to have a car that's useable in the real world and doesn't have to be doing 160mph to feel exciting. I bought myself an Abarth 595 (500) last week - not the fastest car I've had but up there with the best as one of the most enjoyable. I feel the Integrale will be a slightly bigger version of that ( hopefully !)
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