Glowing Manifolds!!
Discussion
Does anyone know why my stainless steel manifolds glowed red hot?
I've just fitted new reconned cylinder heads as my old ones had become porous.
It has all gone together well, I've also fitted new plugs,leads,oil and filter,silicone hoses and given the engine a general tidy.
However, whilst I was filling it with anti-freeze and bringing it up to temperature I noticed that both manifolds were glowing!
It started from cold ok, ran fine while checking for leaks etc. got up to temperature no problem, when I noticed the manifolds I turned it off.
It struggled to restart, the revs shot up and wouldn't tickover, despite fiddling with the throttle stop.
Could it be fuelling,timing,blocked exhaust or all of the above?
The heads are fine as they were pressure tested,skimmed and had unleaded inserts fitted by Knight Race Engines(?) of Nether Heyford.
The engine sounds fine, the car has sat idle for some time, but I've been turning it over and starting it quite regularly.
HELP!! p.s. the engine is a 2.8i Cologne unit.
I've just fitted new reconned cylinder heads as my old ones had become porous.
It has all gone together well, I've also fitted new plugs,leads,oil and filter,silicone hoses and given the engine a general tidy.
However, whilst I was filling it with anti-freeze and bringing it up to temperature I noticed that both manifolds were glowing!
It started from cold ok, ran fine while checking for leaks etc. got up to temperature no problem, when I noticed the manifolds I turned it off.
It struggled to restart, the revs shot up and wouldn't tickover, despite fiddling with the throttle stop.
Could it be fuelling,timing,blocked exhaust or all of the above?
The heads are fine as they were pressure tested,skimmed and had unleaded inserts fitted by Knight Race Engines(?) of Nether Heyford.
The engine sounds fine, the car has sat idle for some time, but I've been turning it over and starting it quite regularly.
HELP!! p.s. the engine is a 2.8i Cologne unit.
I think it would be quite possible for the manifolds to glow when the car is stationary but since you have other running issues I suggest it could be running lean and or running too much ignition advance. I don't have any experience with the 2.8i engine on how to fix these issues but I'm sure someone will be along shortly.
If it was running OK before you changed the manifolds there's no reason for it to be not running now! Good luck.
If it was running OK before you changed the manifolds there's no reason for it to be not running now! Good luck.
Bobby Shaftoe said:
it could be insufficient valve clearances not allowing the valves to seat when the engine is up to temp.
Could be overheating exhaust valves..Check clearances as mentioned or you will cause damage..Also with unleaded heads you want to use 97-98 Ron unleaded and the ignition should be 12 degrees...You only need it retarded to around 8-9 with leaded heads when using unleaded fuel and additive...ZigaRight just spoke to the ford guy and he has only ever seen it once and that was because of a really lean fuel mixture and the timing was seriously retarded...Obviously stainless steel headers are a lot thinner so will not have the heat tolerance that cast ones have.
Also be very careful as these temperatures can actually melt pistons....Cheers...Ziga
Also be very careful as these temperatures can actually melt pistons....Cheers...Ziga
tvrfund said:
Thanks guys
Looks like a lean mixture is favorite, I'll also check the timing and check for air leaks - valve clearances are all ok.
Regards,
Jez.
Unless you are super skilled I would be careful what adjustments you make.Looks like a lean mixture is favorite, I'll also check the timing and check for air leaks - valve clearances are all ok.
Regards,
Jez.
I first suggest you dose it up with carb cleaner and run for a short time, stopping way before anything glows
(think...... burnt valves as the best outcome)Repeat the next day.
Theory: old fuel may have varnished up Fuel Head and possibly the WUR. (neither are cheap)
How's the plenum gasket..no leak?. Try spraying anything non flammable around the edges to see if you get an engine note change.
Theory...any air ingress will not pass the the "big dish" under the Fuel Dist therefore will not lift the pin to correct position and will drastically change mixture.
Is the "big dish" moving freely? Remove air filtre and push it gently up with fingers, treat it like your first girl friend
You should feel just smooth gentle resistance.Good luck
The little screw in the top of the Fuel Dist should really be a last resort and best left to someone with a gas tester and complete knowledge of CIS. (A dying breed)
jeff m2 said:
How's the plenum gasket..no leak?. Try spraying anything non flammable around the edges to see if you get an engine note change.
I learnt that another way to tell if the inlet manifold gasket is leaking is to remove the oil filler cap and put your hand over the oil filler neck and it will suck quite heavily on the palm of your hand if it is leaking...As suggested spray something around the plenum where it meets the trumpets...Or remove the plenum and renew the gasket as they are cheap and do fall apart if disturbed a couple of times..Check the tightness of the plenum bolts..No too tight...About a 1/4 of a turn after tight.jeff m2 said:
The little screw in the top of the Fuel Dist should really be a last resort and best left to someone with a gas tester and complete knowledge of CIS. (A dying breed)
Very true...Some experienced ford mechanics can do it by ear but i think by the sound of it someone has retarded the timing too much to facilitate the lack of fuel..Maybe a good start would be to set the timing to the right degree..If you listen to the exhausts at the rear you should hear a definite mis-fire due to under fuelling...ZigaRight! The plenum gasket is new - so it shouldn't be leaking!!
I'll check it anyway, just in case.
The "big dish" is fine - but again I'll recheck.
I'll stay well clear of the adjustor screw on the fuel head - I'll just have a fiddle with the throttle body.
I took a photo of the distributor when I took it off - just to ensure it went back the same way! Still the problem may lay there.
Many Thanks Guys - but now I'm a little nervous!!
p.s. I'll give the carb cleaner a go as well.
I'll check it anyway, just in case.
The "big dish" is fine - but again I'll recheck.
I'll stay well clear of the adjustor screw on the fuel head - I'll just have a fiddle with the throttle body.
I took a photo of the distributor when I took it off - just to ensure it went back the same way! Still the problem may lay there.
Many Thanks Guys - but now I'm a little nervous!!
p.s. I'll give the carb cleaner a go as well.
Edited by tvrfund on Saturday 18th January 06:41
Hi Mate...before you go touching any idle/Mixture screws you need to back track...If none of these were touched prior to this happening then it might just make matters worst!.
If the car was running ok despite the porous heads then what have you done in between, Fiddling with the idle stop will just mess it up!
You need to check the position of the distributor as that can be 180 degrees out and still start but run like shyte.
What spark plugs did you use?
When you topped up the anti-freeze how much went in?
High revs could indicate fuel starvation....Is the fuel pump ok?...When was the bulkhead fuel filter changed?.
I have to stress please be careful when dealing with the plastic fuel lines and the fuel filter, The fuel lines can split or pinch, Especially the one coming off the filter..When changing a fuel filter the alloy nut often becomes mashed by people who are not sure what they are doing..If you try to hold it with a spanner or worst still grips while you are trying to tighten the banjo up then you will definitely rupture it.
The recommended way is to use the appropriate spanners until tight and then set them apart a couple of inches so they replicate a pair of scissors...Gently squeeze them together and repeat until they won't come together anymore...Its always good to replace the copper washers with new but these should be soft, You can use alloy ones...If you want to do this then speak to Steve at KMI he will help you with any part of the fuel system and can supply pumps..Filters...Accumulators...Washers...AAD....
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
You can say that Mark recommended you..(Red 280i).
If you are working with fuel lines then unplug the green plug that is on the metering head, This way you can check for leaks by turning the key to position 1. and NOT cranking...I don't want to scare you but I'm going to for your own safety...The car can burst into flames if you do not take care..The last thing you need is to generate a spark with leaking fuel!.
Fibreglass is bonded with resin which is highly flammable.
The inlet manifold can cause a weak fuel mixture if it is leaking...The cork part where the distributor sits is one of the commonest places for the gasket to leak..Even new ones and you generally need a fair bit of silicone on that part.
I would start with the distributor..If you have just removed the distributor and put it back in then it will more than likely be the problem.
Initially the timing mark on the pulley should of been set to the timing mark on the plate and a note of the position of the trigger/stator wheel should of been noted/Marked before removal.
You will need to establish TDC then remove the distributor cap and check to see if the rotor arm is pointing towards the scribed mark that should be on the face of the unit where the cap sits..If there is not one on there then it might be on the side.
Once this has been achieved then you will need to check and adjust with a timing gun..Remove the vacuum pipe from the throttle body and plug it whilst doing so.
Sounds like you don't have a manual on the Capri?...Its a good investment....If in doubt let someone do it who knows what they are doing......Cheers...Ziga
If the car was running ok despite the porous heads then what have you done in between, Fiddling with the idle stop will just mess it up!
You need to check the position of the distributor as that can be 180 degrees out and still start but run like shyte.
What spark plugs did you use?
When you topped up the anti-freeze how much went in?
High revs could indicate fuel starvation....Is the fuel pump ok?...When was the bulkhead fuel filter changed?.
I have to stress please be careful when dealing with the plastic fuel lines and the fuel filter, The fuel lines can split or pinch, Especially the one coming off the filter..When changing a fuel filter the alloy nut often becomes mashed by people who are not sure what they are doing..If you try to hold it with a spanner or worst still grips while you are trying to tighten the banjo up then you will definitely rupture it.
The recommended way is to use the appropriate spanners until tight and then set them apart a couple of inches so they replicate a pair of scissors...Gently squeeze them together and repeat until they won't come together anymore...Its always good to replace the copper washers with new but these should be soft, You can use alloy ones...If you want to do this then speak to Steve at KMI he will help you with any part of the fuel system and can supply pumps..Filters...Accumulators...Washers...AAD....
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...
You can say that Mark recommended you..(Red 280i).
If you are working with fuel lines then unplug the green plug that is on the metering head, This way you can check for leaks by turning the key to position 1. and NOT cranking...I don't want to scare you but I'm going to for your own safety...The car can burst into flames if you do not take care..The last thing you need is to generate a spark with leaking fuel!.
Fibreglass is bonded with resin which is highly flammable.
The inlet manifold can cause a weak fuel mixture if it is leaking...The cork part where the distributor sits is one of the commonest places for the gasket to leak..Even new ones and you generally need a fair bit of silicone on that part.
I would start with the distributor..If you have just removed the distributor and put it back in then it will more than likely be the problem.
Initially the timing mark on the pulley should of been set to the timing mark on the plate and a note of the position of the trigger/stator wheel should of been noted/Marked before removal.
You will need to establish TDC then remove the distributor cap and check to see if the rotor arm is pointing towards the scribed mark that should be on the face of the unit where the cap sits..If there is not one on there then it might be on the side.
Once this has been achieved then you will need to check and adjust with a timing gun..Remove the vacuum pipe from the throttle body and plug it whilst doing so.
Sounds like you don't have a manual on the Capri?...Its a good investment....If in doubt let someone do it who knows what they are doing......Cheers...Ziga
Assuming static timing has been rechecked.
Are you sure the top half is not dry?
Did it bleed ok (heater on)
Bleed screw open, water flying in to the reservoir etc.
Are you sure the coolant hoses are correct, very easy to make a mistake on a 280, esp the ones that come up from the therm housing.
Are you sure the top half is not dry?
Did it bleed ok (heater on)
Bleed screw open, water flying in to the reservoir etc.
Are you sure the coolant hoses are correct, very easy to make a mistake on a 280, esp the ones that come up from the therm housing.
Good advice, thanks guys.
Ok, I've yet to check the timing statically - hoping that's the problem!
Fuelling is all ok.
Valley gasket could be problem - although I was very careful to ensure it sealed well.
Throttle body settings have been noted and photographed - before fiddling!!
Anti-freeze and coolant pipework went in ok - no airlocks.
I think timing is the culprit - because blowing the combusting mixture down the exhaust pipes before it's done its job will make them very hot!!
Many thanks,
Jez.
Ok, I've yet to check the timing statically - hoping that's the problem!
Fuelling is all ok.
Valley gasket could be problem - although I was very careful to ensure it sealed well.
Throttle body settings have been noted and photographed - before fiddling!!
Anti-freeze and coolant pipework went in ok - no airlocks.
I think timing is the culprit - because blowing the combusting mixture down the exhaust pipes before it's done its job will make them very hot!!
Many thanks,
Jez.
Wow!! Looks great! So they can be made to look tidy!
Anyway, checked the timing statically - spot on - very frustrating.
Means it's a lean mixture - which must means an air leak - somewhere.
Although I will recheck the "big disc" to make sure it's working ok.
Reset the throttle body - any adjustments made no difference.
Very annoying - starts and ticks over fine when cold, sounds great, as soon as it is warm/hot!! I can just blip the throttle and the revs shoot up - and eventually the manifolds start glowing, also noticed a pop when I turned her off.
I may have to bite the bullet and hand her over to "an expert" as I haven't the facilities or the time if I want her on the road this year. - B*ll*cks!!
Anyway here's another picture :-
Anyway, checked the timing statically - spot on - very frustrating.
Means it's a lean mixture - which must means an air leak - somewhere.
Although I will recheck the "big disc" to make sure it's working ok.
Reset the throttle body - any adjustments made no difference.
Very annoying - starts and ticks over fine when cold, sounds great, as soon as it is warm/hot!! I can just blip the throttle and the revs shoot up - and eventually the manifolds start glowing, also noticed a pop when I turned her off.
I may have to bite the bullet and hand her over to "an expert" as I haven't the facilities or the time if I want her on the road this year. - B*ll*cks!!
Anyway here's another picture :-
Hi Mate...That sounds like a bummer...But does also sound very much like a very lean fuel mix, Especially popping as you turn it off.
The cold start is probably supplying efficient fuelling from cold but once warm the supply is shut off..Do the revs shoot up gradually or is it like the throttle cable is sticking?...
Shame you are not nearer as i have a Gas analyser.
If it is leaking then the most likely place could be the inlet manifold gasket, You could try the hand over the oil filler neck whilst running..If there is a lot of suction on your hand then it is a good indicator that its leaking...Its a pain in the nuptials but has to be done..
Out of interest what was the timing set to?
Cheers...Ziga
PS: I just noticed that you have aluminium foil tape over the sensor plate cover...Is it leaking?
The cold start is probably supplying efficient fuelling from cold but once warm the supply is shut off..Do the revs shoot up gradually or is it like the throttle cable is sticking?...
Shame you are not nearer as i have a Gas analyser.
If it is leaking then the most likely place could be the inlet manifold gasket, You could try the hand over the oil filler neck whilst running..If there is a lot of suction on your hand then it is a good indicator that its leaking...Its a pain in the nuptials but has to be done..
Out of interest what was the timing set to?
Cheers...Ziga
PS: I just noticed that you have aluminium foil tape over the sensor plate cover...Is it leaking?
Edited by mrzigazaga on Sunday 26th January 11:49
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