Citroen C6 - man maths - somebody tell me I'm wrong?
Discussion
Have recently moved from a 10 mile to a 100 mile a day motorway commute, and the missus is holding onto the family E Class for the school run, and refuses to drive my own 1M Coupe instead (actually, I'm not sure I'd let her!).
So can either put 2k miles per month on my beautiful BMW, take a horrible 2 train journey or get myself some cheap motorway munching commuter.
Now - I've always loved the Citroen C6 - like I suspect a lot of people on here. It's a proper head turning moment when you see one of these things. I also love great big wafty barges - had a Lexus LS400 once - loved it to bits. I could not care less about RWD, sportiness or low profile tires when I choose a commuter car. In fact I specifically don't want these things.
So my logic goes something like:
£7k or so to buy
£750 per year to service and fix (too little? Anyone own one and can comment?)
£475 road tax
£450 to insure
£3100 in fuel (2.7 diesel rubbish on fuel - but should do 30mpg at least on commuter run)
Sell it 3 years time and 45k miles later for 3.5k, and swap it for a Lexus LS600h
... offset cost by company covering fuel mileage for 15k a year, 45p first 10k, 25k there after. Total £5750.
Means it'll cost overall about £100 a month, which I think is more than the cost of putting 1.5k extra miles on a BMW 1M per month, although this theory slightly dashed by the (brilliantly) crazy money 1Ms still command regardless of mileage, but that surely won't last forever.
So anyway - according the above I will *make* money by purchasing this car and by not commuting in the 1M anymore. This I'm sure you'll agree is flawless man maths, the remaining questions are:
1. er, are any flaws in the above?
2. anyone driven one? I test drove one once about 5 years ago, enjoyed it, but wrong time to buy. I love what I read though - quiet, comfy, wafty, rubbish around corners. Perfect!
3. any ownership experiences out there, or direct comparison with Jag XJ or Lexus LS430 as other potential choices?
4. there are 915 Citroen C6's registered in this country. There are 211,000+ BMW 5 series. At what point does niche appeal stop the value dropping? I'm sure in 30 year's time for example these are worth more than an E Class or a 5 series... when do we think that process starts?
This plan/project only works with an interesting car, and to be honest as this is almost guaranteed to make me money I'm going to take some talking out it.... am I crazy here?
PS - no "never buy french" comments, they're a waste of time reading and responding to...
So can either put 2k miles per month on my beautiful BMW, take a horrible 2 train journey or get myself some cheap motorway munching commuter.
Now - I've always loved the Citroen C6 - like I suspect a lot of people on here. It's a proper head turning moment when you see one of these things. I also love great big wafty barges - had a Lexus LS400 once - loved it to bits. I could not care less about RWD, sportiness or low profile tires when I choose a commuter car. In fact I specifically don't want these things.
So my logic goes something like:
£7k or so to buy
£750 per year to service and fix (too little? Anyone own one and can comment?)
£475 road tax
£450 to insure
£3100 in fuel (2.7 diesel rubbish on fuel - but should do 30mpg at least on commuter run)
Sell it 3 years time and 45k miles later for 3.5k, and swap it for a Lexus LS600h
... offset cost by company covering fuel mileage for 15k a year, 45p first 10k, 25k there after. Total £5750.
Means it'll cost overall about £100 a month, which I think is more than the cost of putting 1.5k extra miles on a BMW 1M per month, although this theory slightly dashed by the (brilliantly) crazy money 1Ms still command regardless of mileage, but that surely won't last forever.
So anyway - according the above I will *make* money by purchasing this car and by not commuting in the 1M anymore. This I'm sure you'll agree is flawless man maths, the remaining questions are:
1. er, are any flaws in the above?
2. anyone driven one? I test drove one once about 5 years ago, enjoyed it, but wrong time to buy. I love what I read though - quiet, comfy, wafty, rubbish around corners. Perfect!
3. any ownership experiences out there, or direct comparison with Jag XJ or Lexus LS430 as other potential choices?
4. there are 915 Citroen C6's registered in this country. There are 211,000+ BMW 5 series. At what point does niche appeal stop the value dropping? I'm sure in 30 year's time for example these are worth more than an E Class or a 5 series... when do we think that process starts?
This plan/project only works with an interesting car, and to be honest as this is almost guaranteed to make me money I'm going to take some talking out it.... am I crazy here?
PS - no "never buy french" comments, they're a waste of time reading and responding to...
I love the C6. It is a thing of beauty and I often think of getting one. The thing that would worry me is that extremely complex suspension. It's an engineering feat but imagine the pain it could inflict if it goes wrong!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q03XZugwg
Edit: is the 2.7 HDi Biturbo really that bad on fuel? If 30mpg is a 'hopeful' figure, that seems fairly dreadful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2q03XZugwg
Edit: is the 2.7 HDi Biturbo really that bad on fuel? If 30mpg is a 'hopeful' figure, that seems fairly dreadful!
Edited by Baryonyx on Wednesday 15th January 00:37
Sounds like a great plan if you ask me - go for it. Like you, I'm used to my M cars but my old man had on of these back in 2009 and it was great.
Firstly, your man maths seem fine to me but these cars are a long way from being appreciating classics. Unlike older Citroens though, they seem quite well made so have a good chance of going the distance.
IIRC, the 2.7 engine was OK at the time, it's not quickest or most economical but it was well installed, very refined and suited the car well. I think it should do 30mpg with ease - I remember getting mid -30's on the motorway on the few occasions that I drove my old mans. Shame there were so few of the 3.0 sold but I've heard that these are so rare and sought-after that they're sold before they even go on sale!
As you say, it's not the best in bends and the brakes are, let's say 'stretched' if you're pushing on. But it's superbly comfortable and with the double glazing, very quiet at speed. Lack of Bluetooth was a pain but that, and no iPod / USB integration are about the only useful things I can say are missing and both probably easily retrofittable.
It certainly doesn't have the best badge but it's a great avant-garde option, it looks great and has a special feel about it. Shame Citroen could never make the business case for their big barges work but then it probably isn't quite worth the near-£40k being asked for it when new in light of the brilliance of the competition. But it's not far off and I reckon it'll look better on the drive than your E-Class
A 1M owner who also has a Citroen C6. Impressive!
Firstly, your man maths seem fine to me but these cars are a long way from being appreciating classics. Unlike older Citroens though, they seem quite well made so have a good chance of going the distance.
IIRC, the 2.7 engine was OK at the time, it's not quickest or most economical but it was well installed, very refined and suited the car well. I think it should do 30mpg with ease - I remember getting mid -30's on the motorway on the few occasions that I drove my old mans. Shame there were so few of the 3.0 sold but I've heard that these are so rare and sought-after that they're sold before they even go on sale!
As you say, it's not the best in bends and the brakes are, let's say 'stretched' if you're pushing on. But it's superbly comfortable and with the double glazing, very quiet at speed. Lack of Bluetooth was a pain but that, and no iPod / USB integration are about the only useful things I can say are missing and both probably easily retrofittable.
It certainly doesn't have the best badge but it's a great avant-garde option, it looks great and has a special feel about it. Shame Citroen could never make the business case for their big barges work but then it probably isn't quite worth the near-£40k being asked for it when new in light of the brilliance of the competition. But it's not far off and I reckon it'll look better on the drive than your E-Class
A 1M owner who also has a Citroen C6. Impressive!
Palmball said:
Sounds like a great plan if you ask me - go for it. Like you, I'm used to my M cars but my old man had on of these back in 2009 and it was great.
Firstly, your man maths seem fine to me but these cars are a long way from being appreciating classics. Unlike older Citroens though, they seem quite well made so have a good chance of going the distance.
IIRC, the 2.7 engine was OK at the time, it's not quickest or most economical but it was well installed, very refined and suited the car well. I think it should do 30mpg with ease - I remember getting mid -30's on the motorway on the few occasions that I drove my old mans. Shame there were so few of the 3.0 sold but I've heard that these are so rare and sought-after that they're sold before they even go on sale!
As you say, it's not the best in bends and the brakes are, let's say 'stretched' if you're pushing on. But it's superbly comfortable and with the double glazing, very quiet at speed. Lack of Bluetooth was a pain but that, and no iPod / USB integration are about the only useful things I can say are missing and both probably easily retrofittable.
It certainly doesn't have the best badge but it's a great avant-garde option, it looks great and has a special feel about it. Shame Citroen could never make the business case for their big barges work but then it probably isn't quite worth the near-£40k being asked for it when new in light of the brilliance of the competition. But it's not far off and I reckon it'll look better on the drive than your E-Class
A 1M owner who also has a Citroen C6. Impressive!
Well, we're a long way from me being an actual owner yet but the thought has crossed my mind that a C6 and 1M make a pretty cool (and i would think unique!) combo...Firstly, your man maths seem fine to me but these cars are a long way from being appreciating classics. Unlike older Citroens though, they seem quite well made so have a good chance of going the distance.
IIRC, the 2.7 engine was OK at the time, it's not quickest or most economical but it was well installed, very refined and suited the car well. I think it should do 30mpg with ease - I remember getting mid -30's on the motorway on the few occasions that I drove my old mans. Shame there were so few of the 3.0 sold but I've heard that these are so rare and sought-after that they're sold before they even go on sale!
As you say, it's not the best in bends and the brakes are, let's say 'stretched' if you're pushing on. But it's superbly comfortable and with the double glazing, very quiet at speed. Lack of Bluetooth was a pain but that, and no iPod / USB integration are about the only useful things I can say are missing and both probably easily retrofittable.
It certainly doesn't have the best badge but it's a great avant-garde option, it looks great and has a special feel about it. Shame Citroen could never make the business case for their big barges work but then it probably isn't quite worth the near-£40k being asked for it when new in light of the brilliance of the competition. But it's not far off and I reckon it'll look better on the drive than your E-Class
A 1M owner who also has a Citroen C6. Impressive!
The 2.7 does seem to be that poor on fuel - although would hope mid 30s would be possible on a clear run on the motorway. The 3.0 solves all by having better economy, more power and improves on the terrible CO2 (even for a petrol, let alone a diesel!)- but never mind "rare": howmanyleft shows 20 in the whole UK; there are 38 Ferrari 575 Superamericas by way of comparison!
There was bluetooth I think on the elegance versions but not found out for sure yet - another key for a motorway commuter, but like you say retrofittable i assume.
Now just need to find one!
My that 3.0 really is rare! I've never seen one for sale and I regularly look out for these as my old man always had big Citroens when I was a kid (the proper ones...CX, XM and then later on in his retirement, the C6)...since he passed away I've felt like getting one for old times sake. And if I had a genuine need for one like you, it'd be on my list too. Unlike the XM, which despite poor sales sold by the boatload in comparison, there were so few C6's sold new meaning hardly any used ones are available - and many of those for sale are the much less desirable 4 cylinder 2.2 diesels in base spec...I guess this why values have hardly changed on them in the last couple of years (boding well for future values?).
There are two specs...base 'Lignage' and top 'Exclusive'. My fathers was a 2007 Exclusive and definitely had no Bluetooth unfortunately. Irritatingly, it had a slot for a separate SIM card in the dash which is all but useless these days unless you're prepared to have a separate phone number. Retrofit will be widely available so I wouldn't let that stop you!
There are two specs...base 'Lignage' and top 'Exclusive'. My fathers was a 2007 Exclusive and definitely had no Bluetooth unfortunately. Irritatingly, it had a slot for a separate SIM card in the dash which is all but useless these days unless you're prepared to have a separate phone number. Retrofit will be widely available so I wouldn't let that stop you!
No worries about the suspension, Citroen have been perfecting the concept for over 50 years and give at least 200 000 km guarantee on it. If anything goes wrong it is usually the suspension spheres, and they are way cheaper to replace than tegular shock absorbers.
The C6 is a stunningly beutiful car, if the boot space had been a bit bigger I would not hesitate one second to buy one. This thing is literally built for long distance cruising. The suspension is unrivalled for comfort(and they do go surprisingly well around corners, as long as you get used to the fact that the body rolls, you would be surprised at how well the wheels stay planted),I believe that the windows are double glazed (so its quiet), the seats are proper lounge chairs. The long wheel base and the fact that the suspension components manage to virtually decouple the from the rest of the car makes for a very luxurious ride.
Watch that the frameless windows all close properly and do not make any noise at motorway speeds, check that the suspension is supple and soft. They are a lot better built than people think.
In my books one of the more special cars built in the last 10 years.
The C6 is a stunningly beutiful car, if the boot space had been a bit bigger I would not hesitate one second to buy one. This thing is literally built for long distance cruising. The suspension is unrivalled for comfort(and they do go surprisingly well around corners, as long as you get used to the fact that the body rolls, you would be surprised at how well the wheels stay planted),I believe that the windows are double glazed (so its quiet), the seats are proper lounge chairs. The long wheel base and the fact that the suspension components manage to virtually decouple the from the rest of the car makes for a very luxurious ride.
Watch that the frameless windows all close properly and do not make any noise at motorway speeds, check that the suspension is supple and soft. They are a lot better built than people think.
In my books one of the more special cars built in the last 10 years.
Palmball said:
My that 3.0 really is rare! I've never seen one for sale and I regularly look out for these as my old man always had big Citroens when I was a kid (the proper ones...CX, XM and then later on in his retirement, the C6)...since he passed away I've felt like getting one for old times sake. And if I had a genuine need for one like you, it'd be on my list too. Unlike the XM, which despite poor sales sold by the boatload in comparison, there were so few C6's sold new meaning hardly any used ones are available - and many of those for sale are the much less desirable 4 cylinder 2.2 diesels in base spec...I guess this why values have hardly changed on them in the last couple of years (boding well for future values?).
There are two specs...base 'Lignage' and top 'Exclusive'. My fathers was a 2007 Exclusive and definitely had no Bluetooth unfortunately. Irritatingly, it had a slot for a separate SIM card in the dash which is all but useless these days unless you're prepared to have a separate phone number. Retrofit will be widely available so I wouldn't let that stop you!
Ah yes -I assume "telephone" meant bluetooth, but it's the integrated SIM version of in-car phone, which is a bit of a pain but not impossible to get working with a PAYG SIM, which you can redirect to your phone (but is annoying if you forget to change it after). But a parrot bluetooth thing would be fine assuming they can be fitted without damaging the dash. There are two specs...base 'Lignage' and top 'Exclusive'. My fathers was a 2007 Exclusive and definitely had no Bluetooth unfortunately. Irritatingly, it had a slot for a separate SIM card in the dash which is all but useless these days unless you're prepared to have a separate phone number. Retrofit will be widely available so I wouldn't let that stop you!
At the moment the used market is entirely 2.7 HDIs, ranging from a very optimistic £11k for a 44k Exclusive, to below 6k for leggy Linages. Going to keep an eye out for a while - it's not the mileage that bothers me, it's the service history and evidence that the big jobs have been done. I also need to work out what the big jobs are, of course...!
You're talking me into this Palmball!
nagsheadwarrior said:
Sounds like an excellent idea,mahoosive respect to anybody driving a C6,gorgeous things.
As a man of obvious taste,what is this beautiful Bmw you speak of?
As a man of obvious taste,what is this beautiful Bmw you speak of?
this is the car i'm currently commuting that I don't want to put 1.5k-2.5k miles on per month. As the above logic goes, the C6 will literally cost me less to run than the money I'd lose on this*, i think!
- actualmathsmayprovecompletelydifferentinreallifemystatutoryrightsarenotaffected
radiodanno said:
Did these come with the more frugal 2.2d option?
yes- but only 88 registered in the whole country right now according to howmanyleft, vs. 733 2.7s. I think the premium they're likely to command over the 2.7 because of the CO2 and the MPG benefits probably wouldn't net off against what you'd actually save, and the 2.7 whilst thirsty I think is the same unit jag originally launched when they went diesel, and is a nice smooth engine apparentlyI am a fan of the C6 but with consumption being so low and tax so high I would be making an argument for the LS430 you mentioned. I have seen numerous reports of 30+mpg on a run, a good one would cost quite a bit less than your 7k budget, tax would be cheaper and imp sure comfort levels would all but match the big Citroen. That and you would have a silky smooth V8 under the bonnet, win win right?
Or am I missing something.
Or am I missing something.
RicksAlfas said:
cidered77 said:
100 mile a day motorway commute
... offset cost by company covering fuel mileage for 15k a year, 45p first 10k, 25k there after. Total £5750.
Check this bit. Company mileage is normally paid on business miles only. NOT the commute.... offset cost by company covering fuel mileage for 15k a year, 45p first 10k, 25k there after. Total £5750.
I love the C6. Stunning looking car.
GenePoolReject13 said:
I am a fan of the C6 but with consumption being so low and tax so high I would be making an argument for the LS430 you mentioned. I have seen numerous reports of 30+mpg on a run, a good one would cost quite a bit less than your 7k budget, tax would be cheaper and imp sure comfort levels would all but match the big Citroen. That and you would have a silky smooth V8 under the bonnet, win win right?
Or am I missing something.
... yes a fair point, except that I've already owned an LS400 and had that same V8 (didn't get close to 30 mpg though) so feel a bit "been there, done that", plus part of this is about the rarity and the sheer road presence of the C6. Or am I missing something.
I'd love a LS600h, but they start around 16k... will be a great buy in a few years though. A whisper quiet limo with 439bhp and well over 30 mpg on a run, not much there not to like if you don't care about badge.
Oh, my thread has arrived!!! I moved on from my Avantime to a C6 back in October and can confirm its a bloody wonderful car and will compliment your 1M perfectly (when space allows I'm going to get a VX220 for more spirited driving). MPG wise you'll easily see over 30MPG. I had to go from London to Devon over new year and achieved that even on the A303.
Cost wise I reckon you're fairly well on the money and the common (niggly) faults I've found so far are;
Cruise control on a lot seems to be a little hit and miss as to whether you can turn it on. Once on it works fine and the 'fix' seems to be moving the steering wheel adjustment about and then knocking with your hand behind the button. Seems to be a connection issue so am sure it could be properly fixed by a handy auto technician.
Rear ABS sensor seems to have a habit of going. Mine went within a few weeks of picking mine up and meant the dash lot up with various warning message. Simple repair at a garage but it involves taking out the diesel tank so will cost £600 at a dealer or £270 at my local indy.
One headlamp can just go out (seems to be linked to the headlights moving in line with your steering). This has happened to me once but stopping and then restarting the car seems to have fixed it as it's never done it since.
For your budget you'll definitely get an exclusive model which comes with all the toys and luxury. The lounge pack adds reclining and heated rear seats BUT does mean you can't fold the rear seats down for extra space.
Overall I love mine and this is the first car in a long time where I'm not already thinking about its replacement. You need something fun to go along side it so seeing as you've already got that I'd definitely say go for it!
Cost wise I reckon you're fairly well on the money and the common (niggly) faults I've found so far are;
Cruise control on a lot seems to be a little hit and miss as to whether you can turn it on. Once on it works fine and the 'fix' seems to be moving the steering wheel adjustment about and then knocking with your hand behind the button. Seems to be a connection issue so am sure it could be properly fixed by a handy auto technician.
Rear ABS sensor seems to have a habit of going. Mine went within a few weeks of picking mine up and meant the dash lot up with various warning message. Simple repair at a garage but it involves taking out the diesel tank so will cost £600 at a dealer or £270 at my local indy.
One headlamp can just go out (seems to be linked to the headlights moving in line with your steering). This has happened to me once but stopping and then restarting the car seems to have fixed it as it's never done it since.
For your budget you'll definitely get an exclusive model which comes with all the toys and luxury. The lounge pack adds reclining and heated rear seats BUT does mean you can't fold the rear seats down for extra space.
Overall I love mine and this is the first car in a long time where I'm not already thinking about its replacement. You need something fun to go along side it so seeing as you've already got that I'd definitely say go for it!
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