Rejecting a used car. Premature?

[killerbyte]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 15 January 2014 at 20:43

[dave_s13]

They are all quite straightforward things to fix.

It's st but I'd accept the offer of a loan car and give them reasonable time to sort it out.

[BL Fanboy]

For crying out loud!

Let them fix it! When its fixed, its fixed - what "evidence" do you need? Yes, it was bad practice to supply a car in that condition but they are offering several ways to remedy the problem. Perhaps in future, dont buy a car from them if it suits your mind, but things like this can happen with a garage - one that slipped through the net. To be honest, I'm not in the trade, but if I were I'd feel bad about letting a car go like this - perhaps they do, thats why they are trying to live up to a reasonable solution. I would be tempted as the garage man to dig my heels in over a full refund if someone took this attitude with me.

[Matt UK]

dave_s13 said:

They are all quite straightforward things to fix.

It's st but I'd accept the offer of a loan car and give them reasonable time to sort it out.

[Motorrad]

Look at it from their point of view. Presumably they weren't aware of any of these problems. They want to sort it out. They only have your word about what your mechanic has found.
They've offered to come and collect it, you're refusing to let them drive it. Presumably once their man comes over and finds it 'unroadworthy' he won't drive it either and you'll have more evidence for your case. If he does drive it then it's not your responsibility.

Sounds to me like you don't want it fixing and have decided you want rid. If that's the case then you'll likely have to consider court action. Good luck.

[Monkeylegend]

This is the worst case of premature rejection I have read on here.

[Monkeylegend]

killerbyte said:

I'm sure they weren't but I'm arguing that they have a legal obligation to make sure a car is roadworthy before they put it out on the road. According to my mechanic, he found the problems with the shockers within the first 10 seconds of driving it. And it only took him to raise it on the ramp to find the track rod, tyre and brake discs.

What would be your reply to that?

Thanks for your time.

Check before you buy.

[Motorrad]

killerbyte said:

I'm sure they weren't but I'm arguing that they have a legal obligation to make sure a car is roadworthy before they put it out on the road. According to my mechanic, he found the problems with the shockers within the first 10 seconds of driving it. And it only took him to raise it on the ramp to find the track rod, tyre and brake discs.

What would be your reply to that?

Thanks for your time.

It isn't your concern to worry about how they will get the car back to their showroom. Obviously you or I wouldn't drive it in that condition but what they do is their concern. Not yours. I'd tell them the vehicle is ready to be collected and leave it at that.

[BL Fanboy]

I think the mileage discrepancies you speak of is just a busy garage with tens of cars maybe, give a rough stab at the mileage when prepping the advert on the computer rather than going to look precisely - a bit slap dash, but it happens in a busy environment - you'll see the mileage on inspection of the car anyways so I dont think its anything sinister.

[BL Fanboy]

killerbyte said:

I'm sure they weren't but I'm arguing that they have a legal obligation to make sure a car is roadworthy before they put it out on the road. According to my mechanic, he found the problems with the shockers within the first 10 seconds of driving it. And it only took him to raise it on the ramp to find the track rod, tyre and brake discs.

What would be your reply to that?

Thanks for your time.

My, reply would be "Ooops" on the garages behalf. These things happen.


So long as it was being put straight, I would just chalk it up and enjoy my new car when it comes back.

As far as letting the garage drive away a unroadworthy car I think you "do" have a point if it were a private buyer/friend/colleague/family but the garage are the professionals in the eyes of the law and if they were stopped by the Police, in this instance I would think that there is no way on earth they could get you for "allowing to drive"

[Monkeylegend]

killerbyte said:

Monkeylegend said:

Check before you buy.

Hmmm, they repaired the clutch that I noticed but, as you will probably have noticed by now, I'm no car expert. I would expect they would give me a roadworthy car. Am I wrong?

If you noticed it immediately on the drive home, why not on the test drive before you purchased? The issues are obviously very apparant even to you as a non expert.

I assume you had a test drive?

Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 15th January 08:33

[sunbeam alpine]

OP - I agree with others who say that you may have been a bit premature in rejecting - the parts needing replacement are relatively cheap "wear" items.

I would however be more concerned that a 2011 vehicle with that mileage should need all those parts changed. I run a small fleet of vans (up to around 250000km and then we get rid) and have only ever replaced one clutch and one track rod end - and we deliver exclusively to farms and agricultural contractors!

[DonnyMac]

killerbyte said:

Am I wrong?

Yes. In lots of ways.

I was going to write a long mildly amusing 'sketch' post, but cannot be bothered.

Give them the car back, let them fix it.

They're not becoming millionaires by rolling a 113k miler back by 3k miles, it's ludicrous to think they would.

Please leave these poor sods alone once they've fixed your car.

[killerbyte]

sunbeam alpine said:

OP - I agree with others who say that you may have been a bit premature in rejecting - the parts needing replacement are relatively cheap "wear" items.

I would however be more concerned that a 2011 vehicle with that mileage should need all those parts changed. I run a small fleet of vans (up to around 250000km and then we get rid) and have only ever replaced one clutch and one track rod end - and we deliver exclusively to farms and agricultural contractors!

Thanks. What would you suggest given your concerns?

[Monkeylegend]

killerbyte said:

Monkeylegend said:

If you noticed it immediately on the drive home, why not on the test drive before you purchased? The issues are obviously very apparent even to you as a non expert.

I assume you had a test drive?

I did. I don't know what steering wheel play is. All I knew was I didn't feel in control when I got on to a country road at 50mph. I didn't have that in my test drive and may have noticed it if I had. As I said, I thought it was me getting used to the car. It was the mechanic who found the problem and, on telling me, I connected the dots. I'm no car expert.

My real question is: has the garage put an unroadworthy vehicle on the road? If so, do I have the legal right to report to trading standards, reject the car and have a refund?

If it's the vehicle you want, and they offer to fix all the faults, why go to the expense of legal action?

You don't need a legal right to report to TS, but whether they will do anything about it is another matter.

I would let them fix it and move on.

[sunbeam alpine]

killerbyte said:

sunbeam alpine said:

OP - I agree with others who say that you may have been a bit premature in rejecting - the parts needing replacement are relatively cheap "wear" items.

I would however be more concerned that a 2011 vehicle with that mileage should need all those parts changed. I run a small fleet of vans (up to around 250000km and then we get rid) and have only ever replaced one clutch and one track rod end - and we deliver exclusively to farms and agricultural contractors!

Thanks. What would you suggest given your concerns?

In fairness, they are all replaceable items and the garage is going to replace them for you, so I don't think you have any reason to reject. They are tough little vans and can do high mileages without too many problems.

[rallycross]

It's just normal wear and tear on an used car that's done 98,000 miles it's not new and it will have some wear.

Sounds like it needs a new ball joint £20 the rest of it is wear and tear and is subjective, buy a new van on finance if you want a perfect as new van 98000 miles in 3 years is not going to feel like new.

[davamer23]

Assuming you didn't test drive it? Shocks that are shot are easy to recognise on a test drive. As you said you noticed a very apparent problem on the drive home.
Always test drive a car before you buy it, if possible, especially a car at this age and mileage.

Let them fix it and maybe ask for a new Mot test for peace of mind. How long a Mot does it have, if it's a supposed new one then someone's been none too honest.
Did your mechanic just check quickly and find the obvious faults?

[davamer23]

killerbyte said:

Yes I did test drive it. You may think shockers are easy to spot. Me not so much. I didn't feel it was quite right when I was driving home as I almost lost control. I pulled over and got myself together and put it down to me not being used to the car. Putting it in to the garage was a precaution.

It's not had an MOT yet as it's not due until August 2014.

What do you mean always test drive a car of this age? It's not 3 years old yet.

There's always an element of risk buying a used car. I absolutely do not expect a car to be perfect when I buy it. What I do expect is for the car to be roadworthy and not dangerous. My mechanic has said it is dangerous to drive after he put it on the ramp and wrote a full report on the health of the vehicle. He's an expert whose opinion I trust. The garage are professionals whose obligation it is to put a roadworthy car on the road. They haven't, I therefore feel that I have a strong case against them especially given that they fixed the clutch after I noticed it. I would argue that they should have seen the other problems as, to anyone who knows what they're doing, they should have been obvious.

I appreciate the questions from people and I also appreciate people playing devil's advocate. Helps me to refine my case and my decision.

Thanks.

My mistake on the age of the car, I misread as 2001.

Again though let them fix it and at least you'll have the vehicle at a price you were obviously happy to pay but now with, new shocks and the other bits in addition to the clutch.

Proving they actually knew of the faults will be difficult. A SCC will look on them favourably as they are willing to rectify the problems.

[killerbyte]

davamer23 said:

My mistake on the age of the car, I misread as 2001.

Again though let them fix it and at least you'll have the vehicle at a price you were obviously happy to pay but now with, new shocks and the other bits in addition to the clutch.

Proving they actually knew of the faults will be difficult. A SCC will look on them favourably as they are willing to rectify the problems.

Thanks for that. SCC?

I don't think I'd be trying to prove that they knew about the faults. I'd be trying to show that the car was not sufficiently prepared before it was sold which is breach of SoGA 1979. I am also arguing, on the advice of my garage, that the play on the steering wheel combined with the shocks constitutes a dangerous fault. My mechanic's advice was that he drove it half a mile and decided he didn't want to go any further as it was very dangerous.

Of course I have to rely on him, he's utterly convinced. So much to the point that he is willing to put it through an MOT for me and stake his reputation that it will come back as a fail and unsafe. If the car is unsafe I don't want it, whether they're willing to fix it or not because that demonstrates to me that they have not done their due diligence on the car before releasing it. Further, if it is unsafe it is a breach of contract. The contract no longer exists therefore I have the right to a refund.

From my perspective as a person who knows little to nothing about cars my confidence in their ability to properly prepare the car for sale has been severely shaken and, as such, I cannot be sure the car will not have another serious fault in the near future.

I love the car, I'd rather have it, but it's my confidence in the garage.

Anyone understand a non piston heads concerns?