Friday 17th January 2014

Have it your way: PH Blog

Is the Stingray really the Burger King of fast cars or in fact something rather more sophisticated?

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Do you really need a 'fun dial' and multi-configurable driver modes when you've got a 6.2-litre V8 and a manual gearbox? American 'have it your way' fast food culture has come to supposed driver's cars but interestingly the Corvette C7 Stingray is actually playing catch-up to the Germans in this regard.

'Weather' setting? Nah, 'Track' all the way, ta

Comparing anything to a TVR is playing with fire in any PH roadtest but the core values of the 'vette - big V8, hairy chested image and unapologetic looks - are as close to Blackpool's finest as anyone's offering these days. Or would be, had Chevrolet not followed the fashion for multi-mode driver settings and electronically enhanced driving. Something PHer s6boy set us right on in typically forthright style.

"Nothing like a TVR and thank f**k for that," he said in the comments thread. "I can't think of a car review that has depressed me more about the way cars are now being developed." He goes on, "It might make you look good to the outside world as you eke out the extra seconds over a lap or a few extra yards out of a corner compared to that analogue TVR you're itching to get past - and you probably will, but what do you say when you get back to the pits? 'Yup well I had the e-diff 20 per cent open, throttle potentiometer at max attack and TC set up so any oppo action I couldn't handle was mopped up by the ecu.' Driving? No, piloting yes."

I have some sympathy with his viewpoint and have railed against it in the past, RS Audis and recent M BMWs particular culprits in this rush to offer a multitude of settings while failing to actually settle on a single combination that works properly. A tip of the hat to AMG, and in particular the C63, for the philosophy of passive dampers, properly set up steering and a true twist the key and enjoy ethos. Leave the engineers alone, they know what they're doing and all that.

Corvette in 'sophistication and subtlety' shocker

Electric steering and other gizmos have given carmakers incredible freedom to offer multiple maps for power assistance, throttle response, gearshift maps and suspension. But just because they can does it mean they should? Certainly before I'd actually driven the Stingray I'd comprehensively baffled myself trying to work my way through the configuration menus and continued to do so as I trundled up the M4. But the single twist action of the aforementioned 'fun dial' does actually make sense of it all and if you don't get too bogged down with the settings and just keep turning it until you reach Track mode you won't go far wrong. Frankly if it was my car I'd just glue the dial into its most extreme setting and be done with it but credit to Chevrolet for doing a better job than most of translating this culture of configurability into something half beneficial.

So, OK, the Stingray is no TVR. We'll agree on that. But compared with a 991 Turbo or GT3, a Jaguar F-Type, a modern BMW M or a Nissan GT-R it's a mainstream sports car where the tech and the person at the wheel are at least an equal partnership sharing a common goal. Far from being dumbed down the 'vette is actually a lot more clever in its balance of technology and raw thrills than most. Yee, and indeed, hah.

Dan

 

[Godzilla]

Have it your way is Burger King's motto, not McDonalds'...

[Dan Trent]

Fair one, got my mucking burger joints fuddled. I'm more an In-N-Out man myself

But the point about the culture remains!

Dan

[TorqueR]

...but I bet Dan said "I'm lovin it.." while driving the C7 so the McDonalds reference is still valid.

[smilo996]

There is no button for Hick or 1/4 or burnin out the clutch at the traffic lights or even a Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane setting.
Disappointment.

[Godzilla]

Dan Trent said:

Fair one, got my mucking burger joints fuddled. I'm more an In-N-Out man myself

But the point about the culture remains!

Dan

Now you're talking. Amazed nobody's brought In-N-Out to the UK yet, great burgers.

The big question re the C7 is, how much will a Z06 cost in the UK?

[Anubis]

Don't get what all the fuss is about.

If you want your car to act different then you just flick a switch these days; if you think you're a driving god then turn everything off and you're back in old school mode. It's nice to know you can have best of both worlds rather than one or the other.

[ewenm]

I don't think it matters as long as there is a combination of settings available that suits you - just leave it set to that. The issues arise when the software is too restrictive so doesn't allow you to configure it as you want to (I think that's what the article suggests with the BMWs and Audis).

Of course, the other issue is longevity - what happens when the electronics fail? Are they easy to fix or is it a vastly expensive task for 3rd/4th/etc owners?

[Paul.B]

Ten, maybe fifteen years ago when computer Driving Games started to claim to give a 'real life' feel with force feedback steering wheels and fast graphic cards etc, we all moaned that they didn't. Not really!
It seems to me that instead of computer games getting 'closer' to real life driving, driving has moved closer to computer games. Now the two have met in the middle with very good driving games (so I read, I don't touch 'em myself anymore) but synthetic & digital real cars.
Virtually all of this can be put at the door of marketing departments and for me, the introduction of synthesised engine noise being put through the audio system is the most ridiculous, but sadly not the last consequence of all of this. All the other optioned adjustability just adds to the mush!!

[LuS1fer]

It's hardly piloting though.

Not everyone wants four wheels bolted to achassis with a big engine and a "Good Luck" card. Whilst it is all very "Spitfire pilot" romantic, the day you stuff it into a hedge backwards is the day you will appreciate aids more.

Besides, isn't stability control now mandatory?

I recall belting along in my Corvette C5 Z06 and having to brake pretty damned hard and having a sphincter flutter as the back end went light.

I'm not a graet advocate of nannying electronics but I am a fan of the good old-fashioned safety net.

I would certainly buy this over a 911 or F-Type but then I actually like the challenging looks.

[binnerboy]

LuS1fer said:

I'm not a graet advocate of nannying electronics but I am a fan of the good old-fashioned safety net.

this is a tricky one. Most (stats are available somewhere) people overestimate how good they are at driving. The electronics make up the difference as they save situations the driver would not necessarily be able to save. The issue with this is it reinforces the overestimation of driving ability and raises the bar on the limit so when you pass your limit and the electronics limit you are truly fked. You could argue that the limits are so high you shouldn't be approaching them on the road.

I think learning should be done in cars with no driver aids what so ever (morris minor would be perfect) so the learner gets a feel for actual driving so when they move into a car with the aids they recognise it working. The example I like is the Saxo VTR. when it first came out it had no ABS and 1 years free insurance. Young males , having recently passed their tests bought them and then went on to have an accident as the front wheels locked, something they hadn't experienced before due to ABS in the learner cars.

I suppose my main point is the tipping point between nannying and safety is different for everyone.

As long as the electronics are not masking poor chassis or suspension setup and they can be disabled entirely at the drivers request I have no issue with them as a thing.

[n4aat]

Godzilla said:

Now you're talking. Amazed nobody's brought In-N-Out to the UK yet, great burgers.

It was here long before the Americans got one. But the average Pistonheader is unlikely to get in.

http://www.navalandmilitaryclub.co.uk/

And they don't do burgers.

[Sevenman]

Dan Trent said:

Fair one, got my mucking burger joints fuddled. I'm more an In-N-Out man myself

Are you a 4x4 man or do you like a Flying Dutchman?

I did a fair bit of 'research' on their secret menu when working in Arizona. Shame I didn't have a Corvette to compare to the TVR that was waiting back home, but the Crown Vic rental was sufficiently different.

Edited by Sevenman on Friday 17th January 13:59

[PascalBuyens]

smilo996 said:

There is no button for Hick or 1/4 or burnin out the clutch at the traffic lights or even a Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane setting.
Disappointment.

General Lee was a DODGE

[Guyr]

'the Stingray is no TVR'....... exactly, which is why they are still in existence.......

PS I speak a two-time Chimaera owner.

[Countersteer]

There is a strange pleasure in owning something that is problematic but everso rewarding. I'd take the TVR thankyou very much...

[Dan Trent]

Sevenman said:

Dan Trent said:

Fair one, got my mucking burger joints fuddled. I'm more an In-N-Out man myself

Are you a 4x4 man or do you like a Flying Dutchman?

I did a fair bit of 'research' on their secret menu when working in Arizona. Shame I didn't have a Corvette to compare to the TVR that was waiting back home, but the Crown Vic rental was sufficiently different.

Oh I go animal most times...

Dan

[900T-R]

I have no problem with some sort of stability control and driver-configurable settings. That said I see several problems apart from the obvious 'one hundred possible combination, and none that have been thoroughly road tested/developed):

1) Cars not being all that rewarding to drive until you put everything on 'maximum attack'. Old-school, analogue cars are intense and rewarding even when you're just driving on the motorway and A-roads. For the 0.1% of the time I can act like I am a driving god who knows what he's doing, I don't want to spend half a mortgage. Also, I wonder what happens if I crash my car just minding my business on the motorway (hitting standing water, for instance) and the insurance company finds out the car was in 'race mode'.
I'm quite sure, also, that the dealer/manufacturer/... can find out a lot more about my driving habits than I'd be willing to share if they wanted.

2) Cars whose stability controls work continuously in the background to overcome basic dynamic deficiencies and make the driver believe the car handles better than it really does (i.e. all 'luxury' SUVs). Just what we need - drivers who not only think they're literally 'a cut above' every other road user but are also lured into thinking their 2.5 ton behemoth handles like the M5 they came out of when they bought this thing.

3) Cars on which the default settings are utterly sh*te by any standards, require rummaging in some sort of menu structure or pushing buttons that are hid away in the most unergonomic spot, and revert to the default every time you start the engine (yes, that's you, Alfa MiTo) -

4) Electronic systems that make such a big part of the car's value (and probably won't be supported after the manufacturer has lost interest in me as their customer) that the car becomes more or less a disposable.

5) Cutting corners in the mechanical layout and set up, and making up for it with electronics instead, i.e. 'e-diffs' that just apply brakes instead of a real, mechanical LSD etc. Also, at least half the handling of a car is in the damping and the shocks that come on most new cars - even expensive ones - I wouldn't put on my bicycle...

[Godzilla]

Sevenman said:

Are you a 4x4 man or do you like a Flying Dutchman?

I did a fair bit of 'research' on their secret menu when working in Arizona. Shame I didn't have a Corvette to compare to the TVR that was waiting back home, but the Crown Vic rental was sufficiently different.

Edited by Sevenman on Friday 17th January 13:59

You utter, utter, utter, utter b@stard! I made the mistake of clicking on that link and now I want to fly straight back to California...

[z06tim]

Godzilla said:

Sevenman said:

Are you a 4x4 man or do you like a Flying Dutchman?

I did a fair bit of 'research' on their secret menu when working in Arizona. Shame I didn't have a Corvette to compare to the TVR that was waiting back home, but the Crown Vic rental was sufficiently different.

Edited by Sevenman on Friday 17th January 13:59

You utter, utter, utter, utter b@stard! I made the mistake of clicking on that link and now I want to fly straight back to California...

Damn it. You made me click this too. In&out burger is so good.

Spotted something similar in Leicester Square tho: http://whatculture.com/food/five-guys-burgers-and-...

Looked a bit over-priced but was super popular with a queue out the door.

[Sevenman]

Godzilla said:

You utter, utter, utter, utter b@stard!

Glad I could be of help

Going off-topic, but apart from working 70 hour weeks and a bit of sightseeing, I spent some time out there doing something else that we can't do in the UK. It cost a bit more than burgers and Pistonheaders probably don't like this kind of thing.