Prepping for projector - connections and demountable mount?
Discussion
I'm doing some work and before the room gets plastered I want to get ready for a projector.
1. Is it correct that all I will need is an amplified (15m run) HDMI cable from the corner where the bluray/AV receiver will sit to the point where the projector will be, together with a plug socket ready for power? I don't want it hard wired in because I want to remove it when not in use. It is for 'movie nights' only, not general TV use and I think they look pretty ugly.
2. Does anyone know of a projector mount that you can attach and detach to a wall plate relatively quickly and repeatedly, as I can't find one anywhere but surely them must exist.
Any other thoughts and comments gratefully received.
1. Is it correct that all I will need is an amplified (15m run) HDMI cable from the corner where the bluray/AV receiver will sit to the point where the projector will be, together with a plug socket ready for power? I don't want it hard wired in because I want to remove it when not in use. It is for 'movie nights' only, not general TV use and I think they look pretty ugly.
2. Does anyone know of a projector mount that you can attach and detach to a wall plate relatively quickly and repeatedly, as I can't find one anywhere but surely them must exist.
Any other thoughts and comments gratefully received.
Certainly, HDMI cables can become a bit noisy when you're pushing the distance a bit (15m is a ballpark measurement for this, you'd not want to go more than that). Active cables aren't cheap though; I've never used them so I don't know of their worth - the longest HDMI I use for my PJ is only 3m long (a basic QED one). Wireless HDMI might be an alternative, but I've no experience of this.
In terms of actual cables dangling - it's only really the power lead from the PJ that's an issue - they're never very long (sub 2m in my experience), but if you have a decent surge protector extension lead, it'll find a plug socket no problem.
Regarding mounts themselves - most ceiling mounts are relatively permanent installs, though they often have a 'Jesus' bolt that can work as a quick disconnect in some cases (leaving just the top part of the mount in place). Alternatively, Techniq produce a very nice flat ceiling mount, which has slotted holes for the PJ, and only has 2 adjustment screws to undo to slide the PJ back out (they're available for a few makes, but they tend to be the more dedicated PJ's like JVC's).
Have you a PJ in mind yet? The only reason I ask is that if it has lens shift, it opens up more possibility for placement, and even doing away with a mount in some cases.
Hope some of the drivel above helps
In terms of actual cables dangling - it's only really the power lead from the PJ that's an issue - they're never very long (sub 2m in my experience), but if you have a decent surge protector extension lead, it'll find a plug socket no problem.
Regarding mounts themselves - most ceiling mounts are relatively permanent installs, though they often have a 'Jesus' bolt that can work as a quick disconnect in some cases (leaving just the top part of the mount in place). Alternatively, Techniq produce a very nice flat ceiling mount, which has slotted holes for the PJ, and only has 2 adjustment screws to undo to slide the PJ back out (they're available for a few makes, but they tend to be the more dedicated PJ's like JVC's).
Have you a PJ in mind yet? The only reason I ask is that if it has lens shift, it opens up more possibility for placement, and even doing away with a mount in some cases.
Hope some of the drivel above helps
Thanks, I have had a rethink and think the best bet for a temporary solution is to place it on a surface (and there is a suitable surface there). So power point will be within 2m and I can terminate my long hdmi cable somewhere nearby. 15m amplified cable is £60 from Richer Sounds, which I am happy enough with. I will measure up properly at the weekend, as I don't have to go to the ceiling, there is a chance I can get away with 10m or maybe even around 8.
At the end of the day, most HDMI cables are the same. There's a long thread about how some are better than others (or not), but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference by eye. Something like a QED profile will suffice. Flexible yet insulated and well built enough to last. As already noted, the active cables are geared towards the longer lengths, and permanent installs that are built into walls rather than hidden away in floor trunking.
Welcome to the money pit of home cinema projection...
Welcome to the money pit of home cinema projection...
fuelracer496 said:
At the end of the day, most HDMI cables are the same. There's a long thread about how some are better than others (or not), but you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference by eye. Something like a QED profile will suffice. Flexible yet insulated and well built enough to last. As already noted, the active cables are geared towards the longer lengths, and permanent installs that are built into walls rather than hidden away in floor trunking.
Welcome to the money pit of home cinema projection...
Yeah I just read something about how they all basically work or they don't! I've ordered a 10m Ibra one off Amazon for £20, I'll try it between TV and blu ray and tv and ps3 before I install it into the wall.Welcome to the money pit of home cinema projection...
If I'm not impressed I need one anyway to split a signal to a cellar room so can use it for that and get something better, but the article I read said there are only a couple of chinese companies that make them and given the way they are constructed they will either transmit the signal, 100%, or they won't. Anyway, I'm sure this thread might get hijacked and turned into a "no you really do need to spend a fortune on hdmi" thread, but I have bought short lengths cheap and relatively pricey in the past and never notice any difference.
megaphone said:
15m will be okay, but best test it before you install. Have you considered throw distance? The distance between the PJ and screen? Can be critical depending on the projector type.
It will be around 6m, so I have considered that much, but haven't looked into what it will do to my options! Richer Sounds thought that was a good distance (screen will be about 2.4m if I use the biggest size I can fit (which will also work as a blind, so will be pretty cool!zebedee said:
megaphone said:
15m will be okay, but best test it before you install. Have you considered throw distance? The distance between the PJ and screen? Can be critical depending on the projector type.
It will be around 6m, so I have considered that much, but haven't looked into what it will do to my options! Richer Sounds thought that was a good distance (screen will be about 2.4m if I use the biggest size I can fit (which will also work as a blind, so will be pretty cool!Before you commit to a projector, check on this link to see if the image will fit within the screen size you plan to buy as you'll be running that projector from quite a long throw. For example I couldn't use a Sony HW50ES in my room due to this as my throw distance is 6 metres and my screen is 2.8 metres wide, so I stuck with JVC when I replaced my last projector.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Note that you can change the zoom setting on this calculator to show the range of screen sizes.
FWIW I use a 12 metre '1080p' HDMI cable that I bought 6 years ago. The first one I bought wouldn't work at 1080p only 1080i, but this one was only a little dearer (about £50-60 IIRC). I've since tested it with 3D and it works fine with that (though I don't have the 3D glasses myself it proved that this old cable could still handle it).
You can buy a projector lift that puts it into the ceiling when not in use, but I found that one big enough for my JVC X35 would cost more than the projector. I had to compromise with a white X35 and I made a 'floating' shelf at the back of the room to put it on. Not as discrete as I'd like but nicer looking for a living room than a black projector hanging from the ceiling.
Previously I had a smaller projector and put it on a shelf in a bookcase at the back of the room so it wasn't very obvious at all when entering the room.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Note that you can change the zoom setting on this calculator to show the range of screen sizes.
FWIW I use a 12 metre '1080p' HDMI cable that I bought 6 years ago. The first one I bought wouldn't work at 1080p only 1080i, but this one was only a little dearer (about £50-60 IIRC). I've since tested it with 3D and it works fine with that (though I don't have the 3D glasses myself it proved that this old cable could still handle it).
You can buy a projector lift that puts it into the ceiling when not in use, but I found that one big enough for my JVC X35 would cost more than the projector. I had to compromise with a white X35 and I made a 'floating' shelf at the back of the room to put it on. Not as discrete as I'd like but nicer looking for a living room than a black projector hanging from the ceiling.
Previously I had a smaller projector and put it on a shelf in a bookcase at the back of the room so it wasn't very obvious at all when entering the room.
Power Junkie said:
For the cabling you would be better running 2x cat6 data cable with 1 as a spare, then use extenders each end. This will give you better performance and also be more future proof. Keene electronics have a few options which would work well.
YES run at least two Cat5 or Cat6. In addition run some line level cable if you need to take audio from the projector using it as a video switch. Don't forget power!
Lindy do some cheap baluns sub £100 for the pair but go with Wyrestorm if you can get hold of them.
So, from an installers point of view.
Power.
2 x HDMI (one as a spare / back up, ideally from two different manufacturers)
2 x CAT5e/6
Are you thinking a manual screen or electric?
If electric you may need a trigger cable between either the projector and screen or surround sound amp and screen.
Finally. De-mountable Projector Mount, Peerless do an excellent one, with thumb screws for minuet adjustments. Not cheap, but the only one I use now, RRP is £150 - £200 mark from memory.
HTH
V.
Power.
2 x HDMI (one as a spare / back up, ideally from two different manufacturers)
2 x CAT5e/6
Are you thinking a manual screen or electric?
If electric you may need a trigger cable between either the projector and screen or surround sound amp and screen.
Finally. De-mountable Projector Mount, Peerless do an excellent one, with thumb screws for minuet adjustments. Not cheap, but the only one I use now, RRP is £150 - £200 mark from memory.
HTH
V.
It is a vaulted ceiling, so no chance of hiding in ceiling and a hanging shelf would look awful.
Good point on the throw to the screen though, it sounds as if with a 2.4m wide screen, having the projector 6 m back would not be a good idea. But I could put an hdmi socket at the back of the room, so I can run a cable forward to maybe the dining table where I can place the projector on a movie night (remember this is only a once a week type set up, not all tv watching.
So what does cat5/cat6 do that an hdmi won't? Also my builder is going to leave a gap under the plasterboard, so cabling won't be such a faff after the event anyway, I can do it before I put the skirting in.
Good point on the throw to the screen though, it sounds as if with a 2.4m wide screen, having the projector 6 m back would not be a good idea. But I could put an hdmi socket at the back of the room, so I can run a cable forward to maybe the dining table where I can place the projector on a movie night (remember this is only a once a week type set up, not all tv watching.
So what does cat5/cat6 do that an hdmi won't? Also my builder is going to leave a gap under the plasterboard, so cabling won't be such a faff after the event anyway, I can do it before I put the skirting in.
if your cable run will be up to 7M then use an HDMI Cable, if you go over that you start to get issues (unless high spec cable is used) when running 1080P with deep color etc. Cat5/6 will be able to transmit over longer distance without issue (up to 100M usually)but it is also a little more future proof as you just change the TX/RX side for any different formats.
I am using a 10m male to male cable which I will run from the processor (AV receiver) to a female to female wall plate, which I will then plug an hdmi cable into from the projector. Or I might just leave it coiled up coming out of the wall in a cupboard so I can connect direct to the projector and save 2 connections! Cable arrived yesterday so I am going to connect it between the ps3 and tv and blu ray and tv and check the results are as desired.
I have read that with the tech of an HDMI cable, it either works or it doesn't and that perceptions of depth and colour etc are just that.
Sounds like I might have to set the projector up on the table behind the sofa anyway, so having some play in cable length looks quite important. Not too phased about future proofing because I will just have to take 2 lengths of skirting off if I need to put something different in.
I have read that with the tech of an HDMI cable, it either works or it doesn't and that perceptions of depth and colour etc are just that.
Sounds like I might have to set the projector up on the table behind the sofa anyway, so having some play in cable length looks quite important. Not too phased about future proofing because I will just have to take 2 lengths of skirting off if I need to put something different in.
Please don't use the plate, they just add more loss to the system and add another weakness.
The biggest problem with digital signals is that you don't know how close to the 'digital cliff' you actually are. What could work one day may not work the next just because you have tipped over the threshold of working and not.
The Cat6 cables are back ups for the HDMI failing or needing upgrading. I know your builder has said he will leave enough depth in the wall, but if he is doing that, then go the whole hog and put some duct work.
V.
The biggest problem with digital signals is that you don't know how close to the 'digital cliff' you actually are. What could work one day may not work the next just because you have tipped over the threshold of working and not.
The Cat6 cables are back ups for the HDMI failing or needing upgrading. I know your builder has said he will leave enough depth in the wall, but if he is doing that, then go the whole hog and put some duct work.
V.
When you work with HDMI/Digital systems every day you soon learn the common misconception that digital either works or doesn’t is totally false! As all digital systems they use error correction which does work well, but the longer the cable/poor quality this has to work harder and sometimes it takes very little to push it too far. This is why people say you get more detail and better blacks etc with different cables as the error correction is not working so hard, dark/still areas are the first bits to be lost as to keep the bright and moving areas working is a rough guide to losses.
Power Junkie said:
When you work with HDMI/Digital systems every day you soon learn the common misconception that digital either works or doesn’t is totally false! As all digital systems they use error correction which does work well, but the longer the cable/poor quality this has to work harder and sometimes it takes very little to push it too far. This is why people say you get more detail and better blacks etc with different cables as the error correction is not working so hard, dark/still areas are the first bits to be lost as to keep the bright and moving areas working is a rough guide to losses.
excellent, thanks for that, I'll make sure I am happy with the hdmi cable with test connections to tv and ps3/blu ray tonight as it will be going into the floor screed on Friday!Still put some back up in there, just because you might be happy with the way it looks you still have no way of knowing how good or bad the signal is.
To the general eye digital signals do look as though they either work or don't and the tipping point of what you are watching could be very close. Without serious test equipment looking at constellation diagrams and bit error rates there is no way of knowing how hard the error correction software is having to work in the projector. When it can't regenerate the signal that is when blocking could appear, or it could just blue/black screen on you. In addition what works in 720p (sky) may not be so happy at 1080p or even 4k.
You just have to cover yourself as best as possible.
V.
To the general eye digital signals do look as though they either work or don't and the tipping point of what you are watching could be very close. Without serious test equipment looking at constellation diagrams and bit error rates there is no way of knowing how hard the error correction software is having to work in the projector. When it can't regenerate the signal that is when blocking could appear, or it could just blue/black screen on you. In addition what works in 720p (sky) may not be so happy at 1080p or even 4k.
You just have to cover yourself as best as possible.
V.
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