are shifts quicker on db9s with paddles or manuals?

[h00vertime]

As above really. Im pretty sure iv read the manuals are quicker even vs an auto in manual mode? Any truth?

[V8LM]

Read this and report back - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Speculatore]

My DB9 Shifts....Quick...

[downr]

i think that link is to a debate about whether autos or manuals are quicker full stop

but the original question is whether the shifts are quicker on the paddles - to which i would answer yes

[mikey k]

The manual speed is down to the nut behind the handle, that's why paddles are quicker, there is no nut to cock it up

[Speculatore]

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

[mikey k]

Speculatore said:

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

Changing at the red line is often NOT the quickest way, it's better to change at peak torque (which can be programmed in to an auto box)

My Vantage had a peak torque at 5.5k rpm, it is now at the redline thanks to the engine conversion.

[897sma]

The paddle shift in a DB9 is very good. Unlike many other similar systems the Aston allows you to treat it the same as you you would a manual and change gear when YOU want to. I've had mine bouncing off the rev limiter a few times. In Sport mode using manual selection it's an instant change when you flick the lever.

I've had few cars with paddle shift (Merc, BMW, VW, & Audi) and none are as good, all of those don't let you change gear if they don't want you to which can be really frustrating when you pull the paddle and nothing happens. My advice would be go try one and make sure it's in sport mode.

[Speculatore]

mikey k said:

Speculatore said:

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

Changing at the red line is often NOT the quickest way, it's better to change at peak torque (which can be programmed in to an auto box)

My Vantage had a peak torque at 5.5k rpm, it is now at the redline thanks to the engine conversion.

Mikey...My 'Peak Torque' IS now at the Red Line with NO drop off before hand. Mike will post the re-map results on the BR thread at some point today. And I am sure Johnny will be the same. (It is actually unimportant as I will never rev the car up to the red line anyway)...

[George29]

Speculatore said:

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

You can change at the red line if you use the paddles and sport mode in a DB9.

[Zod]

George29 said:

Speculatore said:

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

You can change at the red line if you use the paddles and sport mode in a DB9.

You can change at the shift indicator if you have a manual DB9.

[Speculatore]

Zod said:

George29 said:

Speculatore said:

From an acceleration perspective I am sure that a manual car would be quicker as you can push up to the Red Line in each gear. The way that my car has been set up with the DBS manifolds, remap and torque settings etc is that is now pulls all the way to 7000rpm in each gear where the auto would change up when the computer tells it to.

From an actual 'Gear Selection' perspective I would assume that the auto is quicker as it is a mechanical function instigated by a computer. In a Manual you have the physical act of depressing the clutch, moving the gear selector and releasing the clutch.

You can change at the red line if you use the paddles and sport mode in a DB9.

You can change at the shift indicator if you have a manual DB9.

I use the 'Noise' indicator......

[George29]

Zod said:

You can change at the shift indicator if you have a manual DB9.

As you can with the paddles... Sport mode gives you full control. You could bounce it off the limiter if you so wish (not exactly sure why you would want to) and also faster changes than manuals which was the point of the thread.

[Zod]

George29 said:

Zod said:

You can change at the shift indicator if you have a manual DB9.

As you can with the paddles... Sport mode gives you full control. You could bounce it off the limiter if you so wish (not exactly sure why you would want to) and also faster changes than manuals which was the point of the thread.

There are no shift lights on the automatic cars, are there? The shift lights are where the gear indicator is on an auto. The automatic does not change gear quickly. Try a good dual clutch box and you'll see how slow TT2 is.

[George29]

Zod said:

There are no shift lights on the automatic cars, are there? The shift lights are where the gear indicator is on an auto. The automatic does not change gear quickly. Try a good dual clutch box and you'll see how slow TT2 is.

No, why would you need a shift light when you have a rev counter?

I know the auto isn't fast, but it's faster than a manual. The gearbox in my S3 was miles better than the one in the DB9. Would still rather have a slow auto with paddles than a manual though.

[Zod]

George29 said:

Zod said:

There are no shift lights on the automatic cars, are there? The shift lights are where the gear indicator is on an auto. The automatic does not change gear quickly. Try a good dual clutch box and you'll see how slow TT2 is.

No, why would you need a shift light when you have a rev counter?

I know the auto isn't fast, but it's faster than a manual. The gearbox in my S3 was miles better than the one in the DB9. Would still rather have a slow auto with paddles than a manual though.

You know where the peak torque point is in each gear?

[downr]

Zod said:

You know where the peak torque point is in each gear?

[Speculatore]

George29 said:

Zod said:

There are no shift lights on the automatic cars, are there? The shift lights are where the gear indicator is on an auto. The automatic does not change gear quickly. Try a good dual clutch box and you'll see how slow TT2 is.

No, why would you need a shift light when you have a rev counter?

I know the auto isn't fast, but it's faster than a manual. The gearbox in my S3 was miles better than the one in the DB9. Would still rather have a slow auto with paddles than a manual though.

And I waited 18 months for a manual DB9 to come along...People like different things....

[V8LM]

mikey k said:

Changing at the red line is often NOT the quickest way, it's better to change at peak torque (which can be programmed in to an auto box)

Not sure it is. It is the area under the power curve that is important (actually the area between the two engine rpm before and after change) - torque on its own means nothing. Best to change (just past) peak power.

I think.



ETA: That's why in 'sport' mode an auto car will rev higher before changing; the 'sport' button on the Vanquish increases the red line by 500 rpm, etc.

Edited by V8LM on Wednesday 22 January 13:10

[DB9VolanteDriver]

V8LM said:

mikey k said:

Changing at the red line is often NOT the quickest way, it's better to change at peak torque (which can be programmed in to an auto box)

Not sure it is. It is the area under the power curve that is important (actually the area between the two engine rpm before and after change) - torque on its own means nothing. Best to change (just past) peak power.

I think.



ETA: That's why in 'sport' mode an auto car will rev higher before changing; the 'sport' button on the Vanquish increases the red line by 500 rpm, etc.

Edited by V8LM on Wednesday 22 January 13:10

Absolutely correct. You want to shift when the power of the next gear (as it is rising) becomes higher than the power of the current gear (as it is falling). So that means your shift when you are on the far side of the HP peak in the gear that you are currently in so that in the higher gear you will be on the near side of its peak (and rising).

And for some reason, people don't understand that for any given road speed, max torque at the wheels occurs at the engine's max HP rpm, not its max torque rpm (unless they are the same, of course, but this is not typical).

To wit, if you had a CVT and you wanted max acceleration to be available at all times, you'd continuously vary the trans ratio so that the engine was running at its max HP rpm, thereby making max torque available to the rear wheels by simply fully opening the throttle.