New pet, what insurance

[illmonkey]

I've currently got a cat on M&S, which years ago was great, but M&S are upping the fee year on year. Nigel hasn't had any big claims but I'm paying £270 a year for premium cover from them!

As you may know, we've recently got a dog, Louis, who we want to insure. I've phoned M&S and they won't do a discount for 'multi pet', so it'd just be a new policy.

I'd like to move from M&S, and get a joint policy with a new supplier (suggestions?), but concerned about the "we don't cover previous illnesses" bit. He's only been in the vets for eating something and becoming a bit blocked. Concern to not have that covered?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

No new policy will cover pre existing conditions, AFAIK. So you might be stuck with M&S for ever.

[illmonkey]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

No new policy will cover pre existing conditions, AFAIK. So you might be stuck with M&S for ever.

I'm not hugely worried, as Nigel's only had 1 slight issue.

It does seem, moving forward, a horrible rule though.

[Bungleaio]

I'm pretty sure our dog is covered by http://www.petplan.co.uk They were recommended to us by the place we rescued our dog from as well as a walker that we know really well.

If you do want to go with them I can give you our policy number and you will get an extra month free

[Druid]

Maybe I just love risk but I've never had pet insurance, just bitten the bullet if it ever came. So far it hasn't and I've had Vizslas, Labs and Springers (if you saw the springers in the field you would think I've misjudged the insurance thing!). With the Cocker incoming we won't be insuring it.

[Defcon5]

I've never had pet insurance either, got a spare credit card instead

[Bungleaio]

Our last lab had around £8000 of chemo, I wouldn't go without insurance but I can see why you wouldn't go for it.

[illmonkey]

For me, the monthly cost isn't much and covers any unexpected big bills. I'd rather pay £20 a month than payout £8k at a time!

Thanks for the recommendation.

[Siscar]

illmonkey said:

For me, the monthly cost isn't much and covers any unexpected big bills. I'd rather pay £20 a month than payout £8k at a time!

Thanks for the recommendation.

Well paying out £8k is rare, it's like all insurance, it only exists because on average people pay more in premiums than they ever get back in claims. Put the £20 a month away somewhere and then use that pot of money to pay any bills and on average it will cost you less. The only logical reason to get insurance is if it's required legally or if what you are insuring against is too expensive for you to fund if it happens.

[bexVN]

2,3,4k bills are not rare, nor are ongoing claims. 2yrs of saving £20/month could be swallowed up in 1 or 2 visits. I really do know what I talking about as I see it all the time.

If you have at least 4k to hand maybe don't get ins, if you don't then get it. It can always be cancelled but at least get it before any chance of pup getting ill/ injured. The peace ifind.

Look at cover for life Pet Plan as gold standard then compare others to it. I don't know of any ins co that will cover previous illnesses at least not for the first yr. Some may reconsider after this time but you'd have to ask.

Have to say M&S were fantastic re my Jimmy's claims and we're half price/ month compared to Sainsbury who he had been with (though they always pd out for Jimmy and my cat)

Edited by bexVN on Sunday 26th January 08:17

[Siscar]

bexVN said:

2,3,4k bills are not rare, nor are ongoing claims. 2yrs of saving £20/month could be swallowed up in 1 or 2 visits. I really do know what I talking about as I see it all the time.

Compared to the number of people paying for the insurance they are, otherwise the insurance companies are charities paying out more than people pay in premiums. Of course they don't, more people spend more on the premiums than they will ever get back in claims. That's the basic economics of it, it's not free money.

bexVN said:

If you have at least 4k to hand maybe don't get ins, if you don't then get it. It can always be cancelled but at least get it before any chance of pup getting ill/ injured. The peace ifind.

Siscar said:

The only logical reason to get insurance is if it's required legally or if what you are insuring against is too expensive for you to fund if it happens.

Insurance could even (at the extreme) be described as a tax on the poor, the more money you have the less need you have for it and the better off you are likely to become. Sure, if you couldn't afford, say, £4k if it happens and you hadn't accumulated it in your "insurance premium not paid" fund then it's worth it but the fact remains that for most people it's more expensive than taking the risk yourself.

[bexVN]

Thanks for the insight into how insurance companies make their money, hadn't figured that one out in all the yrs that I have been dealing with pet insurance.

That's the ultimate gamble but for too many pet owners it's a gamble that pays off.

Personally I have as follows

Lucy cat 4.5k post rta, almost 3k due to chronic severe rhinitis (tx over last 6 yr
Jimmy whippet 3x £3-400 for eating ibuprofen/ raisins and ladybird food (caused pamcreatitis) £1,200 severe dog bite on his chest and finally 2.5k for MRI scan csf tap etc

I could never ever have afforded the above and have definitely not lost out. Based on the amount of claims we put through every week for our clients neither do they.

I have had uninsured pets aswell but never again (talking as a pet owner, not a vet nurse now)

[Siscar]

bexVN said:

Thanks for the insight into how insurance companies make their money, hadn't figured that one out in all the yrs that I have been dealing with pet insurance.

Well you write as though you don't understand it as you go on to confirm here.

bexVN said:

I could never ever have afforded the above and have definitely not lost out. Based on the amount of claims we put through every week for our clients neither do they.

Your clients, if they are a representative sample, on average do lose out. You see the ones who claim, you don't see the ones who don't.

It's true that people need to understand the size of risk that they are taking and if that is too much then insure against it, but that is the only logical basis on which to do it.

[bexVN]

Ok I admit I'm talking crap and don't know st, fine why should I care if an owner ends up putting a pet to sleep or handing it over for rehoming because they couldn't afford to pay for their pet when it got ill.

All those people who have told me how they regretted not getting insurance, all those that have said they have never claimed but are still glad they had it for peace of mind.

All I wanted to do was help the OP, probably haven't even achieved that!

[Siscar]

bexVN said:

Ok I admit I'm talking crap and don't know st, fine why should I care if an owner ends up putting a pet to sleep or handing it over for rehoming because they couldn't afford to pay for their pet when it got ill.

All those people who have told me how they regretted not getting insurance, all those that have said they have never claimed but are still glad they had it for peace of mind.

All I wanted to do was help the OP, probably haven't even achieved that!

OK, so you've moved from the question of the logic of insurance to invoking the emotions.

As I've said several times in various forms, if you can't afford the event then get the insurance, if you could afford the event then on balance you will save by not getting the insurance. It really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

Sad though it must be to deal with people who can't afford the treatment and didn't get the insurance, it doesn't change the logic of it one iota.

[amusingduck]

Siscar said:

As I've said several times in various forms, if you can't afford the event then get the insurance, if you could afford the event then on balance you will save by not getting the insurance. It really shouldn't be that hard to understand.

Your example does not work for individuals, only for the entire group.

Our pup broke his leg at 4 months, a £3500 bill. That pays for over 8 years of premiums, and it is likely that we will claim more than we've paid in. That is the entire purpose of insurance for me, you pay £x per month to cover big bills. There are a lot of conditions which certain breeds are predisposed to, which can throw up big, recurring bills. I would rather pay the £30 a month rather than have to worry about keeping thousands spare in my bank "just in case".

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Siscar said:

Compared to the number of people paying for the insurance they are, otherwise the insurance companies are charities paying out more than people pay in premiums. Of course they don't, more people spend more on the premiums than they will ever get back in claims. That's the basic economics of it, it's not free money.

It's not quite that straightforward. many insurance companies run certain insurance lines on a loss ratio that is in excess of 100%. They make their money from investments during the gap in time between collecting premiums and paying claims. Of course that's rarer these days of lower interest rates.

Then there are loss leaders. Like motor insurance. Many companies make no money out of motor insurance, but use it to cross sell household, life and pensions etc, where profits are larger.

None of this may apply to pet cover, but the principle of less out in claims than collected in premiums isn't always the case.