Discussion
Chris200 said:
Well that's good to know.
Guess the brand is a bit like Skoda, those in the know, know they are good, those who don't, think they are cheep rubbish!
Have just ordered my first Sportura, should be here in Friday.
I wouldn't compare them with Skoda, Some of the Grand Seiko watches cost more then most new skodas!Guess the brand is a bit like Skoda, those in the know, know they are good, those who don't, think they are cheep rubbish!
Have just ordered my first Sportura, should be here in Friday.
As a poster above mentioned they seem to be in all the watch markets from <£50 all the way to more than £20,000
Saying that i am not sure how they are viewed by real watch geeks!
Here is my circa £50 seiko
IMG_9264 by jimmyb156, on Flickr
2014-01-01 by jimmyb156, on Flickr
IMG_0024 by jimmyb156, on Flickr
Chris200 said:
Well that's good to know.
Guess the brand is a bit like Skoda, those in the know, know they are good, those who don't, think they are cheep rubbish!
Have just ordered my first Sportura, should be here in Friday.
It's a good analogy ........I made a stupid remark some months ago about the brand which I regret, they do make fine time pieces.........but I still don't want one.just like a don't want a Skoda Guess the brand is a bit like Skoda, those in the know, know they are good, those who don't, think they are cheep rubbish!
Have just ordered my first Sportura, should be here in Friday.
Seiko is to watchmaking, what VW is to car manufacturing – a multitude of brands targeting different sectors of the marketplace.
Without getting into which brand equals which VW brand/models, it's safe to say you never have any concerns about buying a Seiko.
Strangely though, they're not the biggest watch manufacturer, but the second, after Citizen.
As for watch geeks – a true WIS (Watch Idiot Savant) would and does accept they have long since earned their right to sit at the horological table.
The world would be a poorer place without Seiko, of that there is no shadow of a doubt.
Unfortunately, like all aspects of life, brand snobbery pervades the watch world – hence why there's so many squabbles about Grand Seiko vs Rolex/Patek Philippe/Omega/JLC.
The one thing Seiko don't do, being typical honourable Japanese, is rip the arse out of their prices.
When you consider that Rolex, through massive expenditure and all round cleverness, have marketed themselves into their position today, manufacture over 750K watches (and that's not including their sibling, Tudor) per annum, yet price theirs above what Seiko does for their hand assembled, ~10K production output of Grand Seikos (quartz, mechanical, and Spring Drive), Anantas, Credors, and Galantes (these latter two not officially imported), then it's understandable why those who appreciate and understand Seiko, get antsy about these superb watches being put down because of the same name existing on the run-of-the-mill models we're used to seeing.
In car parlance, it's akin to someone deciding they're not buying a Bentley because it's a VW owned brand.
Granted there's a slight difference in that Bentley has it's own brand identity, to a degree, but Seiko are fiercely proud of their name, and Grand Seiko has a heritage stretching back to the 60's, before production of mechanicals was stopped, as they believed the future lay in quartz.
Only for a certain person in Switzerland (CEO of SWATCH) turning traditional watchmaking into a luxury/jewellery industry, did Seiko realise the dormant Grand Seiko brand could be resurrected, with the first models coming in 1998.
As they could no longer have their movements COSC certified, for political business and tactical reasons, they devised their own standard, which adjusted the movements (once cased – not how it is in Switzerland where the movements are sent to COSC before being returned with their certificate, of those that pass) in 6 positions, as opposed to 5, and at 3 (vs 2) different temperatures, over 17 days, instead of 15 or 16, iirc.
So whilst the specs may read as loose (-10/+25 daily variance) the reality is they very often come a lot tighter than that.
One final thing to note, in relation to the total vertical integration (of which Rolex and one or two others also do) is that the oil used for lubrication of the movement, is made by Seiko.
I'm not sure if it's because it's proprietary or simply cost/QC based – but as far as I'm aware, they're the only brand to do so.
So there you go – a brief introduction to who/what Seiko are/is. A company that can make anything from cheap and cheerful to how bloody much?
Without getting into which brand equals which VW brand/models, it's safe to say you never have any concerns about buying a Seiko.
Strangely though, they're not the biggest watch manufacturer, but the second, after Citizen.
As for watch geeks – a true WIS (Watch Idiot Savant) would and does accept they have long since earned their right to sit at the horological table.
The world would be a poorer place without Seiko, of that there is no shadow of a doubt.
Unfortunately, like all aspects of life, brand snobbery pervades the watch world – hence why there's so many squabbles about Grand Seiko vs Rolex/Patek Philippe/Omega/JLC.
The one thing Seiko don't do, being typical honourable Japanese, is rip the arse out of their prices.
When you consider that Rolex, through massive expenditure and all round cleverness, have marketed themselves into their position today, manufacture over 750K watches (and that's not including their sibling, Tudor) per annum, yet price theirs above what Seiko does for their hand assembled, ~10K production output of Grand Seikos (quartz, mechanical, and Spring Drive), Anantas, Credors, and Galantes (these latter two not officially imported), then it's understandable why those who appreciate and understand Seiko, get antsy about these superb watches being put down because of the same name existing on the run-of-the-mill models we're used to seeing.
In car parlance, it's akin to someone deciding they're not buying a Bentley because it's a VW owned brand.
Granted there's a slight difference in that Bentley has it's own brand identity, to a degree, but Seiko are fiercely proud of their name, and Grand Seiko has a heritage stretching back to the 60's, before production of mechanicals was stopped, as they believed the future lay in quartz.
Only for a certain person in Switzerland (CEO of SWATCH) turning traditional watchmaking into a luxury/jewellery industry, did Seiko realise the dormant Grand Seiko brand could be resurrected, with the first models coming in 1998.
As they could no longer have their movements COSC certified, for political business and tactical reasons, they devised their own standard, which adjusted the movements (once cased – not how it is in Switzerland where the movements are sent to COSC before being returned with their certificate, of those that pass) in 6 positions, as opposed to 5, and at 3 (vs 2) different temperatures, over 17 days, instead of 15 or 16, iirc.
So whilst the specs may read as loose (-10/+25 daily variance) the reality is they very often come a lot tighter than that.
One final thing to note, in relation to the total vertical integration (of which Rolex and one or two others also do) is that the oil used for lubrication of the movement, is made by Seiko.
I'm not sure if it's because it's proprietary or simply cost/QC based – but as far as I'm aware, they're the only brand to do so.
So there you go – a brief introduction to who/what Seiko are/is. A company that can make anything from cheap and cheerful to how bloody much?
Edited by PJ S on Monday 10th February 11:46
I think this has started a really interesting thread……I have to admit that I am a slave to branding (to a certain extent) as many of us are. Would I feel the same about my Rolex or Vacheron if it had the word Seiko instead ….or my Aston if it had Vauxhall on it …….no I wouldn’t …….I can see that is wrong but I still can’t get my head around it.
I will enrol immediately at a clinic for shallow people ( best enrol my wife as she has a weakness for LV and Chanel handbags )
Anybody else like to “come out” of the “I’m addicted to brands” closet ??
I will enrol immediately at a clinic for shallow people ( best enrol my wife as she has a weakness for LV and Chanel handbags )
Anybody else like to “come out” of the “I’m addicted to brands” closet ??
This post is worth a read - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As I understand it, Grand Seiko's are far more highly sought after in Japan than they are in Europe, which isn't entirely surprising. I have huge respect for the standards they build to. A few months back WatchTime tested a Grand Seiko High Beat (36,000VpH) and found it gained/lost 0.0 seconds per day in most positions. Pretty impressive in my book. They were comparing it to a 36,000VpH El Primero movement, which was 4-5 seconds out if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, I pass my magazines on to my Dad so can't be more specific on the exact watches and times, but I definitely remember being a bit gutted by the result as a Zenith owner.
Whilst I'm a fan of simple design, I can't help but find the vast majority of Grand Seiko watches just a bit too plain. Take the High Beat itself, for example: http://www.watchtime.com/watch-database/seiko/gran...
Although one man's plain is another's simple elegance.
Whilst I'm a fan of simple design, I can't help but find the vast majority of Grand Seiko watches just a bit too plain. Take the High Beat itself, for example: http://www.watchtime.com/watch-database/seiko/gran...
Although one man's plain is another's simple elegance.
michael gould said:
Anybody else like to “come out†of the “I’m addicted to brands†closet ??
yeti said:
michael gould said:
Anybody else like to “come out†of the “I’m addicted to brands†closet ??
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