E36 M3 / E46 M3 for track?
Discussion
Hi Guys,
Want to start getting myself into track days.
I've noticed E36 M3 prices have gone up since i was last in the market and E46 M3 prices have come down quite alot...
So the question is, do i get a good E36 M3 for around £4.5k or buy a cheap E46 M3 for £5.5-6k
either car will be stripped of its interior down to the essentials.
What do you guys suggest and why?
Want to start getting myself into track days.
I've noticed E36 M3 prices have gone up since i was last in the market and E46 M3 prices have come down quite alot...
So the question is, do i get a good E36 M3 for around £4.5k or buy a cheap E46 M3 for £5.5-6k
either car will be stripped of its interior down to the essentials.
What do you guys suggest and why?
Curious, but why do need a car such as these for track day use? Guess this is a more general question as I know plenty of people use them. But track days are not competitions, there is no prize money and no first place.
On this basis there must be better cars to use just for track days.
Personally if I was wanting a track day only vehicle I'd be looking for:
-Something very fun to drive, even at the cost of ultimate pace. Maybe a classic of some kind, something that'll move about a bit more and be more satisfying to try and master.
-or something very simple and low maintenance. Something easy on tyres and breaks, kit car. Maybe a Caterfield or similar (plenty of cheaper variants).
-either way, I'd certainly want something a little different to everyone else. As it'd be all about fun.
Have you considered competing in competitions? If so, then you'll need to narrow down what appeals and see what the regs will let you run, as not all cars will be eligible.
On this basis there must be better cars to use just for track days.
Personally if I was wanting a track day only vehicle I'd be looking for:
-Something very fun to drive, even at the cost of ultimate pace. Maybe a classic of some kind, something that'll move about a bit more and be more satisfying to try and master.
-or something very simple and low maintenance. Something easy on tyres and breaks, kit car. Maybe a Caterfield or similar (plenty of cheaper variants).
-either way, I'd certainly want something a little different to everyone else. As it'd be all about fun.
Have you considered competing in competitions? If so, then you'll need to narrow down what appeals and see what the regs will let you run, as not all cars will be eligible.
I used to run a Z3M Coupe as a track day car, was brilliant fun etc but you could feel it was a bit heavy, it ate brakes for breakfast (upgraded pads & discs and ducted etc)
and consumables were high on it, bush's, tyres & servicing to keep her in top condition. I've also had a E46 M3, and that went on track quite a few of times too, upgraded brakes pads needed minimum, I also had AST Coilovers, and that was great fun, more so than the Z3M, so I'd say get an E46 M3 and strip it, few mods (Brakes & suspension) and it'll pound round the track all day long.
I'd also think about getting something lighter like the other said. But it is up to you at the end of the day, I got rid of it as running costs were high and it was getting a bit leggy on the miles.
I now run a shed for my short work journeys and weekend stuff, and have a 200bhp westfield for track/weekend fun.
and consumables were high on it, bush's, tyres & servicing to keep her in top condition. I've also had a E46 M3, and that went on track quite a few of times too, upgraded brakes pads needed minimum, I also had AST Coilovers, and that was great fun, more so than the Z3M, so I'd say get an E46 M3 and strip it, few mods (Brakes & suspension) and it'll pound round the track all day long.
I'd also think about getting something lighter like the other said. But it is up to you at the end of the day, I got rid of it as running costs were high and it was getting a bit leggy on the miles.
I now run a shed for my short work journeys and weekend stuff, and have a 200bhp westfield for track/weekend fun.
Edited by paulm3 on Friday 24th January 15:29
You can get an E36 M3 down to 1100kg, so hardly the heaviest thing in the world.
A set of tyres lasted over a year of trackdays (£600/set), and pads and discs even longer.
Think about the tracks you're going to be driving - there's nothing more frustrating than a slow car at Bedford or Silverstone, and nothing worse than something that doesn't handle at Brands or Donnington. So do you want power, handling or both?
There's also nothing to stop you putting skinny tyres on an M3 if you want it to move around more, but still have the grunt.
A set of tyres lasted over a year of trackdays (£600/set), and pads and discs even longer.
Think about the tracks you're going to be driving - there's nothing more frustrating than a slow car at Bedford or Silverstone, and nothing worse than something that doesn't handle at Brands or Donnington. So do you want power, handling or both?
There's also nothing to stop you putting skinny tyres on an M3 if you want it to move around more, but still have the grunt.
Output Flange said:
You can get an E36 M3 down to 1100kg, so hardly the heaviest thing in the world.
I'm certainly not saying that is impossible, although I was reading a thread the other day about M£ weights and track use.But you must have to spend some serious wedge to really drop down to that level.
Carfolio list the M3 e36 @ 1460kg and BMW's own "lightweight" at 1338kg. And an M3 e36 Evo @ 1515kg.
e46 M3 @ 1570kg.
Certainly not claiming it can't be done, but to drop 360kg is more than just removing the interior.
Taking stuff out is always a good bet. But how much would it cost to drop that last 100-200kg? I'm willing you could sink a large percentage of your original purchase price in weight saving items.
Again, not saying this is wrong, but for a vehicle that isn't going to win you a race, it just seems like wasted money IMO. If you are competing then it's a different story.
Again, not saying this is wrong, but for a vehicle that isn't going to win you a race, it just seems like wasted money IMO. If you are competing then it's a different story.
Lightweight bonnet and boot aren't all that expensive, as there's a decent sized market for them.
There's something like 10kg-ish of redundant wiring in the body loom, so if you've got the time, patience and skill to strip that out, that's free weight saving. Got a sunroof? Lose that, Blu Tac the panel in place. Arch liners? Don't need those. Air con? Overrated.
But there are cheaper ways to make an M3 quicker. Don't touch the engine - really poor £ versus lap time return (trackday - I know, I know). Fit a shorter ratio diff instead. Got an Evo? Sell the 6 speed 'box, fit a 5 speeder, put the profit in the kitty. Get some part-worn tyres off the Kumho race boys for peanuts, they'll last you a trackday season.
I've done the M3 thing, and really enjoyed it. Mine was massively competent, but still took some mastering. I've now got an E28 track car which is less powerful, less grippy and nowhere near as fast over a lap. I did a trackday at Brands yesterday and truth be told, I'd rather have been in the M3.
There's something like 10kg-ish of redundant wiring in the body loom, so if you've got the time, patience and skill to strip that out, that's free weight saving. Got a sunroof? Lose that, Blu Tac the panel in place. Arch liners? Don't need those. Air con? Overrated.
But there are cheaper ways to make an M3 quicker. Don't touch the engine - really poor £ versus lap time return (trackday - I know, I know). Fit a shorter ratio diff instead. Got an Evo? Sell the 6 speed 'box, fit a 5 speeder, put the profit in the kitty. Get some part-worn tyres off the Kumho race boys for peanuts, they'll last you a trackday season.
I've done the M3 thing, and really enjoyed it. Mine was massively competent, but still took some mastering. I've now got an E28 track car which is less powerful, less grippy and nowhere near as fast over a lap. I did a trackday at Brands yesterday and truth be told, I'd rather have been in the M3.
300bhp/ton said:
Again, not saying this is wrong, but for a vehicle that isn't going to win you a race, it just seems like wasted money IMO. If you are competing then it's a different story.
One other thought - if you're going to build a track car yourself (not saying you are OP, as you only mention stripping) then it's not a bad idea to go as close to the regs of an existing series as is possible, so that when you come to sell there's a ready-made market for it.Won't suit what everyone wants to do, but does open up the options come resale time.
For me i think that you buy an M3 because you want an M3. E36 E46 E92 they are all nice. What ever you can afford. The M3 E36 is a very good base and has plenty of power. You can take your time to modify it too and enjoy every single step and make it your own. They are quite bullet proof too so that helps on track days.
Can you have more fun on an MX5 ,Subaru, kit cars ? May be, but they don't rock my boat as much, the same as other owners would say M3's are not there thing. So for me E36 M3 is a good bet and shoudn't be hard to resale when you need too.
Eduardo.
Can you have more fun on an MX5 ,Subaru, kit cars ? May be, but they don't rock my boat as much, the same as other owners would say M3's are not there thing. So for me E36 M3 is a good bet and shoudn't be hard to resale when you need too.
Eduardo.
Another random musing on E36s - if your budget is £4k, I'd buy a 328i for £1k and use some of the remainder to make it track-ready - coilovers, brakes, tyres and a Z3 steering rack.
If you can spend more than £4k, I'd be looking for an M3 that someone had already track-prep'd. Although bear in mind that that means different things to different people.
Always cheaper to buy than build.
The quickest thing at Brands yesterday was a 520bhp Mitsi Evo something. Second fastest was a Legnum Estate with turbos and stuff. Third fastest was an Impreza. Can you tell that it was a wet day yet?
If you can spend more than £4k, I'd be looking for an M3 that someone had already track-prep'd. Although bear in mind that that means different things to different people.
Always cheaper to buy than build.
The quickest thing at Brands yesterday was a 520bhp Mitsi Evo something. Second fastest was a Legnum Estate with turbos and stuff. Third fastest was an Impreza. Can you tell that it was a wet day yet?
300bhp/ton said:
Taking stuff out is always a good bet. But how much would it cost to drop that last 100-200kg? I'm willing you could sink a large percentage of your original purchase price in weight saving items.
Again, not saying this is wrong, but for a vehicle that isn't going to win you a race, it just seems like wasted money IMO. If you are competing then it's a different story.
You are wrong with the weights, sub 1200kg is easy peasy, even without lightweight panels. Again, not saying this is wrong, but for a vehicle that isn't going to win you a race, it just seems like wasted money IMO. If you are competing then it's a different story.
I have a track car and an e46 m3 that I use as an everyday car.. Recently I've been using the n3 on track and it was great - kind of better than my track car as it is so much slower so there are more things to play with
As mentioned already there's no prizes or money for going fastest.. I think I could have just as much fun on wet track in the m3 provided the track didn't mind a bit of sideways stuff...
Great car
I also know people that have had both track e36 and e46 m3's and they prefer the 46 if that helps
As mentioned already there's no prizes or money for going fastest.. I think I could have just as much fun on wet track in the m3 provided the track didn't mind a bit of sideways stuff...
Great car
I also know people that have had both track e36 and e46 m3's and they prefer the 46 if that helps
300bhp/ton said:
Any linkies?
I have a track pair in the garage you are welcome to weigh.Last cornerweight weigh of my track e36 328 full cage, (50kg?) heavy buckets, still with sunroof headlining, steel doors boot & bonnet, all glass, standard loom heavy wheels & tyres & huge 60ah battery under 1/4 fuel was 1205kg. 1100kg pos with effort, for ref my sc'd mx5 mk1, half cage naff all fuel but stock interior was 1050kg.
M3 e36 full cage- more bars on cage, no sunroof, loom strip, heavy battery, all steel all glass, light wheels, 5 speed but heavier evo dif, 1227kg
M3
300bhp/ton said:
Curious, but why do need a car such as these for track day use? Guess this is a more general question as I know plenty of people use them. But track days are not competitions, there is no prize money and no first place.
On this basis there must be better cars to use just for track days.
Personally if I was wanting a track day only vehicle I'd be looking for:
-Something very fun to drive, even at the cost of ultimate pace. Maybe a classic of some kind, something that'll move about a bit more and be more satisfying to try and master.
-or something very simple and low maintenance. Something easy on tyres and breaks, kit car. Maybe a Caterfield or similar (plenty of cheaper variants).
-either way, I'd certainly want something a little different to everyone else. As it'd be all about fun.
Have you considered competing in competitions? If so, then you'll need to narrow down what appeals and see what the regs will let you run, as not all cars will be eligible.
Few reasons, On this basis there must be better cars to use just for track days.
Personally if I was wanting a track day only vehicle I'd be looking for:
-Something very fun to drive, even at the cost of ultimate pace. Maybe a classic of some kind, something that'll move about a bit more and be more satisfying to try and master.
-or something very simple and low maintenance. Something easy on tyres and breaks, kit car. Maybe a Caterfield or similar (plenty of cheaper variants).
-either way, I'd certainly want something a little different to everyone else. As it'd be all about fun.
Have you considered competing in competitions? If so, then you'll need to narrow down what appeals and see what the regs will let you run, as not all cars will be eligible.
1. I like M3's
2. I want to learn how to work on a car
3. Track days will just be a start before i start looking towards competitions
I must admit, i'm rather ignorant when it comes to the competitions and what's available for a novice and such a car. could anyone point me into the right direction to a series where such a car inc mods totalling £10k would be competitive?
Thanks for all the replys
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