Law regarding sitting in the back of a Land Rover
Discussion
I think there are 4 parts to this question.
Is there any law that restricts or prevents you sitting in the back of a Land Rover, Defender, 90 or Series while on the road?
Specifically:
-Person age, such as is it different for children?
-Vehicle age, a new Defender vs a 1978 Series III or older?
-Configuration, such as a pick up vs a station wagon?
-Seating type, such as just sitting on the metal seat box without a cushioned seat, bench seat with no belts, individual side facing seats (maybe with belts).
Thanks.
Is there any law that restricts or prevents you sitting in the back of a Land Rover, Defender, 90 or Series while on the road?
Specifically:
-Person age, such as is it different for children?
-Vehicle age, a new Defender vs a 1978 Series III or older?
-Configuration, such as a pick up vs a station wagon?
-Seating type, such as just sitting on the metal seat box without a cushioned seat, bench seat with no belts, individual side facing seats (maybe with belts).
Thanks.
Snowboy said:
A mate used to have an old series 1 /90.
Their insurance said only two passengers in the back.
Iirc there weren't any seatbelts in the back.
I woukd guess the answer is on the V5 where it says how many seats the vehicle has.
And then a look at the age to see if seatbelts are required.
I don't think it's a matter of insurance, at least not in my case. I just want to know if there is some law you could get knicked for if you have people in the back of a Landy.Their insurance said only two passengers in the back.
Iirc there weren't any seatbelts in the back.
I woukd guess the answer is on the V5 where it says how many seats the vehicle has.
And then a look at the age to see if seatbelts are required.
In years past it wasn't an issue and I've travelled a lot in the back of a Landy. Just unsure what the law is today on it.
For the larger 110 you might need a change to yoru driving license depending on when you passed. Usually goes by what the number of seats are on the V5. Later 110s have lap belts in the back as an option, think it is ok to sit there without if there were none fitted at the time though you would have to check that.
UK drivers who passed their ordinary car driving test prior to 1 January 1997 will normally have been issued an old style UK Driving Licence showing
vehicles of Group A or a new style EC Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Categories B, C1 and D1.
Drivers who passed their ordinary driving test after
1 January 1997 are only issued a Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Category B (up to 8 passenger seats); Categories C1 and D1 are no longer
issued automatically.
Driving Licence Category D (9 or more passenger seats) or Category D1
(9 to 16 passenger seats).
All drivers of minibuses (9-16 passenger seats) are required to hold a valid
driving licence showing either Group A on an old style UK Licence or
Category B and D or D1 on a new EC style Licence issued in any EU
Country.
Drivers who passed the car test (Category B) after the 1st January 1997 and
who wish to drive a minibus are required to take a further Statutory Driving
test for vehicles in Category D or D1. However; certain drivers who passed
the car test (Category B) after 1 January 1997 are permitted to drive a vehicle in Category D1 (minibuses) without the need for a further test so long as all of the following conditions are met: -
• A full driving licence has been held for at least two years
• The driver is aged 21 years or over
• The driver receives no payment (or any other consideration) other than out
of pocket expenses (i.e they are a volunteer)*
• The vehicle is driven for social purposes only
• There is no trailer attached
• The maximum authorised mass (mam) of the vehicle does not exceed
3.5 tonnes, or if fitted with specialised equipment used for disabled
passengers, does not exceed 4.25 tonnes.**
To establish if a person can be categorised as a volunteer driver, the
following issues should be addressed:-
• Is the organisation a non-commercial body?
• Is the driving for social purposes?
• Can the driver be compelled by his / her employer to drive?
• Is the driver being paid specifically for the driving?
If the first two questions can be answered positively, and the answer to the
latter two is no, the driver may be considered to be driving on a voluntary
basis.
UK drivers who passed their ordinary car driving test prior to 1 January 1997 will normally have been issued an old style UK Driving Licence showing
vehicles of Group A or a new style EC Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Categories B, C1 and D1.
Drivers who passed their ordinary driving test after
1 January 1997 are only issued a Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Category B (up to 8 passenger seats); Categories C1 and D1 are no longer
issued automatically.
Driving Licence Category D (9 or more passenger seats) or Category D1
(9 to 16 passenger seats).
All drivers of minibuses (9-16 passenger seats) are required to hold a valid
driving licence showing either Group A on an old style UK Licence or
Category B and D or D1 on a new EC style Licence issued in any EU
Country.
Drivers who passed the car test (Category B) after the 1st January 1997 and
who wish to drive a minibus are required to take a further Statutory Driving
test for vehicles in Category D or D1. However; certain drivers who passed
the car test (Category B) after 1 January 1997 are permitted to drive a vehicle in Category D1 (minibuses) without the need for a further test so long as all of the following conditions are met: -
• A full driving licence has been held for at least two years
• The driver is aged 21 years or over
• The driver receives no payment (or any other consideration) other than out
of pocket expenses (i.e they are a volunteer)*
• The vehicle is driven for social purposes only
• There is no trailer attached
• The maximum authorised mass (mam) of the vehicle does not exceed
3.5 tonnes, or if fitted with specialised equipment used for disabled
passengers, does not exceed 4.25 tonnes.**
To establish if a person can be categorised as a volunteer driver, the
following issues should be addressed:-
• Is the organisation a non-commercial body?
• Is the driving for social purposes?
• Can the driver be compelled by his / her employer to drive?
• Is the driver being paid specifically for the driving?
If the first two questions can be answered positively, and the answer to the
latter two is no, the driver may be considered to be driving on a voluntary
basis.
Crusoe said:
For the larger 110 you might need a change to yoru driving license depending on when you passed. Usually goes by what the number of seats are on the V5. Later 110s have lap belts in the back as an option, think it is ok to sit there without if there were none fitted at the time though you would have to check that.
UK drivers who passed their ordinary car driving test prior to 1 January 1997 will normally have been issued an old style UK Driving Licence showing
vehicles of Group A or a new style EC Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Categories B, C1 and D1.
Drivers who passed their ordinary driving test after
1 January 1997 are only issued a Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Category B (up to 8 passenger seats); Categories C1 and D1 are no longer
issued automatically.
Driving Licence Category D (9 or more passenger seats) or Category D1
(9 to 16 passenger seats).
All drivers of minibuses (9-16 passenger seats) are required to hold a valid
driving licence showing either Group A on an old style UK Licence or
Category B and D or D1 on a new EC style Licence issued in any EU
Country.
Drivers who passed the car test (Category B) after the 1st January 1997 and
who wish to drive a minibus are required to take a further Statutory Driving
test for vehicles in Category D or D1. However; certain drivers who passed
the car test (Category B) after 1 January 1997 are permitted to drive a vehicle in Category D1 (minibuses) without the need for a further test so long as all of the following conditions are met: -
• A full driving licence has been held for at least two years
• The driver is aged 21 years or over
• The driver receives no payment (or any other consideration) other than out
of pocket expenses (i.e they are a volunteer)*
• The vehicle is driven for social purposes only
• There is no trailer attached
• The maximum authorised mass (mam) of the vehicle does not exceed
3.5 tonnes, or if fitted with specialised equipment used for disabled
passengers, does not exceed 4.25 tonnes.**
To establish if a person can be categorised as a volunteer driver, the
following issues should be addressed:-
• Is the organisation a non-commercial body?
• Is the driving for social purposes?
• Can the driver be compelled by his / her employer to drive?
• Is the driver being paid specifically for the driving?
If the first two questions can be answered positively, and the answer to the
latter two is no, the driver may be considered to be driving on a voluntary
basis.
Thanks for the info, but I don't think it answers or has any direct relation to my questions.UK drivers who passed their ordinary car driving test prior to 1 January 1997 will normally have been issued an old style UK Driving Licence showing
vehicles of Group A or a new style EC Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Categories B, C1 and D1.
Drivers who passed their ordinary driving test after
1 January 1997 are only issued a Driving Licence showing vehicles of
Category B (up to 8 passenger seats); Categories C1 and D1 are no longer
issued automatically.
Driving Licence Category D (9 or more passenger seats) or Category D1
(9 to 16 passenger seats).
All drivers of minibuses (9-16 passenger seats) are required to hold a valid
driving licence showing either Group A on an old style UK Licence or
Category B and D or D1 on a new EC style Licence issued in any EU
Country.
Drivers who passed the car test (Category B) after the 1st January 1997 and
who wish to drive a minibus are required to take a further Statutory Driving
test for vehicles in Category D or D1. However; certain drivers who passed
the car test (Category B) after 1 January 1997 are permitted to drive a vehicle in Category D1 (minibuses) without the need for a further test so long as all of the following conditions are met: -
• A full driving licence has been held for at least two years
• The driver is aged 21 years or over
• The driver receives no payment (or any other consideration) other than out
of pocket expenses (i.e they are a volunteer)*
• The vehicle is driven for social purposes only
• There is no trailer attached
• The maximum authorised mass (mam) of the vehicle does not exceed
3.5 tonnes, or if fitted with specialised equipment used for disabled
passengers, does not exceed 4.25 tonnes.**
To establish if a person can be categorised as a volunteer driver, the
following issues should be addressed:-
• Is the organisation a non-commercial body?
• Is the driving for social purposes?
• Can the driver be compelled by his / her employer to drive?
• Is the driver being paid specifically for the driving?
If the first two questions can be answered positively, and the answer to the
latter two is no, the driver may be considered to be driving on a voluntary
basis.
Assume the vehicle is insured and assume the driver has a suitable licence.
Can you have people sitting in the back of a Land Rover legally?
The answer is yes or no I suspect.
But sub-divided into the 4 points in my opening post.
Ta
plasticpig said:
You are not allowed to carry kids under 3 without a seat belt.
Ta, thought there was something like this. Isn't there something about child seats too these days?And while on this subject, if a vehicle, say a 1950's Series 1 Land Rover, which isn't required to have belts at all for road use. I assume you are saying you can't carry a child under 3 in it period?
300bhp/ton said:
I think there are 4 parts to this question.
Is there any law that restricts or prevents you sitting in the back of a Land Rover, Defender, 90 or Series while on the road?
Specifically:
-Person age, such as is it different for children?
-Vehicle age, a new Defender vs a 1978 Series III or older?
-Configuration, such as a pick up vs a station wagon?
-Seating type, such as just sitting on the metal seat box without a cushioned seat, bench seat with no belts, individual side facing seats (maybe with belts).
Thanks.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/40AIs there any law that restricts or prevents you sitting in the back of a Land Rover, Defender, 90 or Series while on the road?
Specifically:
-Person age, such as is it different for children?
-Vehicle age, a new Defender vs a 1978 Series III or older?
-Configuration, such as a pick up vs a station wagon?
-Seating type, such as just sitting on the metal seat box without a cushioned seat, bench seat with no belts, individual side facing seats (maybe with belts).
Thanks.
3 points, level 4 fine (level 5 if goods vehicle). Mandatory 6 month disqualification if one or more similar conviction within 3 years.
Yes, people can sit in the back of a Landover if it has seats, but those seats will need to be on the v5.
Some 90s are considered 2 seaters, some 4 seaters and some 6 seaters.
In addition to the v5 and seats it's likely your insurance will mention the number of passengers somewhere.
If there are no seats or if the vehicle is registered as a 2 seated then you can't be in the back.
In law it would be considered akin to being in the back if a pickup or van.
Some 90s are considered 2 seaters, some 4 seaters and some 6 seaters.
In addition to the v5 and seats it's likely your insurance will mention the number of passengers somewhere.
If there are no seats or if the vehicle is registered as a 2 seated then you can't be in the back.
In law it would be considered akin to being in the back if a pickup or van.
First google answer.
https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/if-your-vehicle-...
No, only allowed kids over 3 if there are no belts.
https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/if-your-vehicle-...
No, only allowed kids over 3 if there are no belts.
agtlaw said:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...
3 points, level 4 fine (level 5 if goods vehicle). Mandatory 6 month disqualification if one or more similar conviction within 3 years.
Thanks. But I'm not sure how that pages directly relates to any of my questions? Could you explain it for me please?3 points, level 4 fine (level 5 if goods vehicle). Mandatory 6 month disqualification if one or more similar conviction within 3 years.
Nice simple explanations here:
https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/overview
and
https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/using...
Person Age - kids have to be in forward facing seats with 3 point seatbelts up to the age of 12
Vehicle Age - only exception is for those old enough never to have been fitted with seatbelts - and then children between ages 3 & 12 have to sit in rear seats only.
Configuration - have to have proper seats fitted, so if you had proper seats in the rear of a pickup then you'd be ok! If you mean configuration of seats, then see person age - that seems to rule out the old bench seats in the back for kids.
It seems to be:
Adults = sit where you want as long as there's a seat fitted (& it's on the V5 & the insurers know!)Seat belts only legally required if vehicle was of an age where seat belts would have been fitted by factory (assuming you are adding extra seats!)
Kids = not so lenient
There are some exceptions to both though and are in the links above
HTH
https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/overview
and
https://www.gov.uk/child-car-seats-the-rules/using...
Person Age - kids have to be in forward facing seats with 3 point seatbelts up to the age of 12
Vehicle Age - only exception is for those old enough never to have been fitted with seatbelts - and then children between ages 3 & 12 have to sit in rear seats only.
Configuration - have to have proper seats fitted, so if you had proper seats in the rear of a pickup then you'd be ok! If you mean configuration of seats, then see person age - that seems to rule out the old bench seats in the back for kids.
It seems to be:
Adults = sit where you want as long as there's a seat fitted (& it's on the V5 & the insurers know!)Seat belts only legally required if vehicle was of an age where seat belts would have been fitted by factory (assuming you are adding extra seats!)
Kids = not so lenient
There are some exceptions to both though and are in the links above
HTH
Edited by PeetBee on Thursday 30th January 12:11
I had this scenario a couple of years back.
I have a Discovery 4 with 7 seats and also a 1986 V8 90 with 7 seats (4 side facing rear seats no belts 3 in the front middle one with a lap belt)
The old 90 normally just tootles around near home but we were heading into Manchester for the day with the 4 kids and they quite fancied the idea of taking "Vinny" into the city so we did.
Our youngest boy was only 4 so he sat in the middle front seat with a lap belt on when on the motorway before joining his siblings in the back once we got into the crawling city traffic.
Police were doing a random vehicle check point thing near the city centre and I was asked to pull in.
Young copper asks me if I know why I've been stopped and I say I have a suspicion why I've been stopped but I believe the reasons were flawed, he then goes on to predictably try and do me for not having seatbelts on the kids.
Belts were not fitted when new and I've kept the vehicle pretty much factory spec as that's how I like it.
He "begs to differ" with my explanation that as belts were not originally fitted, they didn't need to be worn. I told him to check with someone before he begged to differ but he wouldn't have it.
Eventually he checks with his senior officer and they have a bit of a conflab before grumpily sending me on my way.
If it has seats fitted and they are on the V5 and insurance then you can sit in the back. If it has belts fitted use them, if it doesn't then dependant on vehicle age, you don't have to.
If no seats then its either classed as a van or pick up and you cant have people in the back.
Seats is a subjective matter, padded foam on the wheel arches in an old Landy you would probably get away with.
I have a Discovery 4 with 7 seats and also a 1986 V8 90 with 7 seats (4 side facing rear seats no belts 3 in the front middle one with a lap belt)
The old 90 normally just tootles around near home but we were heading into Manchester for the day with the 4 kids and they quite fancied the idea of taking "Vinny" into the city so we did.
Our youngest boy was only 4 so he sat in the middle front seat with a lap belt on when on the motorway before joining his siblings in the back once we got into the crawling city traffic.
Police were doing a random vehicle check point thing near the city centre and I was asked to pull in.
Young copper asks me if I know why I've been stopped and I say I have a suspicion why I've been stopped but I believe the reasons were flawed, he then goes on to predictably try and do me for not having seatbelts on the kids.
Belts were not fitted when new and I've kept the vehicle pretty much factory spec as that's how I like it.
He "begs to differ" with my explanation that as belts were not originally fitted, they didn't need to be worn. I told him to check with someone before he begged to differ but he wouldn't have it.
Eventually he checks with his senior officer and they have a bit of a conflab before grumpily sending me on my way.
If it has seats fitted and they are on the V5 and insurance then you can sit in the back. If it has belts fitted use them, if it doesn't then dependant on vehicle age, you don't have to.
If no seats then its either classed as a van or pick up and you cant have people in the back.
Seats is a subjective matter, padded foam on the wheel arches in an old Landy you would probably get away with.
James (Fish)here:
Quite a lot to cover:
New Landy post 2007 rear seats must be forward facing with 3 point belts even retrofit:
Kids must be in type approved child restraints to specs
Fairly clearcut. Retrofit side facing seats breach construction and use regs. Can also get done for transporting passengers in an unsafe manner.
Very old Landies pre seatbelt in rear laws:
Side facing seats ok for adults and retro fit seats okay as long as V5 reflects number and Ins aware.
Kids need to be in the front in an approved boaster etc... Unless one of the exemptions.
Very Very old landies pre 67/63? can't remember year but pre ANY seatbelts:
Kids can be transported unrestrained in the rear under the classic car exemptions BUT strangely not the front!
All in all very complicated with the following things to consider:
Construction and use
Insurance
Seatbelt regs
Retro fits
Adult/Kid
Transporting in an unsafe manner(subjective)
Basically have fun.....
Quite a lot to cover:
New Landy post 2007 rear seats must be forward facing with 3 point belts even retrofit:
Kids must be in type approved child restraints to specs
Fairly clearcut. Retrofit side facing seats breach construction and use regs. Can also get done for transporting passengers in an unsafe manner.
Very old Landies pre seatbelt in rear laws:
Side facing seats ok for adults and retro fit seats okay as long as V5 reflects number and Ins aware.
Kids need to be in the front in an approved boaster etc... Unless one of the exemptions.
Very Very old landies pre 67/63? can't remember year but pre ANY seatbelts:
Kids can be transported unrestrained in the rear under the classic car exemptions BUT strangely not the front!
All in all very complicated with the following things to consider:
Construction and use
Insurance
Seatbelt regs
Retro fits
Adult/Kid
Transporting in an unsafe manner(subjective)
Basically have fun.....
The fact that an occupant would have to wear a seatbelt assumes there are seats fitted, so the question is, is it therefore right to assume occupants should also have to occupy a recognised seat? I guess it could be argued that not occupying a seat is in effect the same as not wearing a seatbelt, in terms of end result. And that in turn assumes the vehicle is of an age where seatbelts are mandatory.
The "number of seats including driver" box on the V5 is usually for buses and PCVs. That said, number of seats is usually notified to DVLA at first registration for any vehicle and sometimes pops up on things like price comparison websites.
The vehicle will be insured based on the number of seats declared at registration, so if more passengers are carried loose in the rear then the insurance may be invalidated, although that's more of an administrative point than a legal one as the minimum third party cover will still be in place. This pitfall also plagues the VW campervan community where two seat vans are converted to four or five seat (with belts) campers but can only be insured for two occupants, unless DVLA are informed and update their Database of Doom.
I just don't do it, and avoid all doubt. Easier that way.
The "number of seats including driver" box on the V5 is usually for buses and PCVs. That said, number of seats is usually notified to DVLA at first registration for any vehicle and sometimes pops up on things like price comparison websites.
The vehicle will be insured based on the number of seats declared at registration, so if more passengers are carried loose in the rear then the insurance may be invalidated, although that's more of an administrative point than a legal one as the minimum third party cover will still be in place. This pitfall also plagues the VW campervan community where two seat vans are converted to four or five seat (with belts) campers but can only be insured for two occupants, unless DVLA are informed and update their Database of Doom.
I just don't do it, and avoid all doubt. Easier that way.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 4th February 09:26
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 4th February 13:21
If the rear of your Land Rover looks like this:
Then:
Those aren't seats, therefore you can't sit in them.
Same penalty as if you were caught with people sitting in the back of a van, which is, according to a Police forum I just checked: Dangerous load/carriage of passengers £60 fine and 3 points.
Then:
Those aren't seats, therefore you can't sit in them.
Same penalty as if you were caught with people sitting in the back of a van, which is, according to a Police forum I just checked: Dangerous load/carriage of passengers £60 fine and 3 points.
NinjaPower said:
If the rear of your Land Rover looks like this:
Then:
Those aren't seats, therefore you can't sit in them.
Same penalty as if you were caught with people sitting in the back of a van, which is, according to a Police forum I just checked: Dangerous load/carriage of passengers £60 fine and 3 points.
But is this age related?Then:
Those aren't seats, therefore you can't sit in them.
Same penalty as if you were caught with people sitting in the back of a van, which is, according to a Police forum I just checked: Dangerous load/carriage of passengers £60 fine and 3 points.
e.g.
Many Land Rovers, from Series I, II, II, 90, 110 and even Defenders have been fitted with these, either from the factory or retro fit.
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