Discussion
964 V 993, which one should i go for.
I'm hoping for an insight from those in the know. I'm due to leave the forces later this year after 22+ years and am going to treat myself when i'm finally set free. I'm torn between the 2 and don't know which one to choose. I really like the idea of one of these air cooled 911's but i do not know enough about them or driven either.
It will be a car for high days and holidays and for me to tinker with but the budget is only around 25K. It has to be the right choice as i will have to get rid of a mint Sierra Cosworth which iv'e had since 1996. I have had a Boxster around 10 years ago which was a lovely little car, currenly run a 4.5 Cayenne S. I do also have an aircooled motor but it only does 55mph maxed out and looks like a loaf of bread.
So, can you enlighten me on the virtues of either one, pros and cons etc.
Your thoughts and opinions please.
I'm hoping for an insight from those in the know. I'm due to leave the forces later this year after 22+ years and am going to treat myself when i'm finally set free. I'm torn between the 2 and don't know which one to choose. I really like the idea of one of these air cooled 911's but i do not know enough about them or driven either.
It will be a car for high days and holidays and for me to tinker with but the budget is only around 25K. It has to be the right choice as i will have to get rid of a mint Sierra Cosworth which iv'e had since 1996. I have had a Boxster around 10 years ago which was a lovely little car, currenly run a 4.5 Cayenne S. I do also have an aircooled motor but it only does 55mph maxed out and looks like a loaf of bread.
So, can you enlighten me on the virtues of either one, pros and cons etc.
Your thoughts and opinions please.
964 for me. Prefer everything on them really.
Slightly higher servicing costs though as the 993 has hydraulic tappets but the 964 needs them adjusting at service time. Depends on mileage though so probably won't be every service, these days and it's not a fortune. Gives you a good excuse to powder coat the rocker covers.
964 probably more prone to oil leaks due to the engine design, base gaskets etc, but either car would want an inspection carried out if you're not an expert. Have a leak down test carried out as a lot of engines are wheezing around out there. Even if an advert says "Engine rebuild only 20k miles ago" ask the seller when it was age wise as oil seals and gaskets go hard over time regardless and 20k miles in a summer use 964 could be ten years ago.
Both suffer from rust these days, plenty online about where, mainly screen seals etc, 964 sills under sharkfins etc.
Great cars though.
I don't dislike 993s, in fact an RS rep would be great, I just don't buy into the hype around them and prefer every aspect of the 964.
As said above though, a great example is the key to any ownership experience and a good one of either will be a lot of fun.
Slightly higher servicing costs though as the 993 has hydraulic tappets but the 964 needs them adjusting at service time. Depends on mileage though so probably won't be every service, these days and it's not a fortune. Gives you a good excuse to powder coat the rocker covers.
964 probably more prone to oil leaks due to the engine design, base gaskets etc, but either car would want an inspection carried out if you're not an expert. Have a leak down test carried out as a lot of engines are wheezing around out there. Even if an advert says "Engine rebuild only 20k miles ago" ask the seller when it was age wise as oil seals and gaskets go hard over time regardless and 20k miles in a summer use 964 could be ten years ago.
Both suffer from rust these days, plenty online about where, mainly screen seals etc, 964 sills under sharkfins etc.
Great cars though.
I don't dislike 993s, in fact an RS rep would be great, I just don't buy into the hype around them and prefer every aspect of the 964.
As said above though, a great example is the key to any ownership experience and a good one of either will be a lot of fun.
If you go for a 993 my feeling is they need a bit of the slop and rubber taken out in order for the drive to rival a 964.
With both as stock, the 964 is noticeably more connected and intimate.
That said, if you want more of a touring car with more isolation to NVH then the 993 as stock might be just the ticket.
Cant go wrong with either though. Try both and let your heart decide.
With both as stock, the 964 is noticeably more connected and intimate.
That said, if you want more of a touring car with more isolation to NVH then the 993 as stock might be just the ticket.
Cant go wrong with either though. Try both and let your heart decide.
I've also owned both. Each a C2.
Funny thing I remember about the 964. I used to keep asking myself, if back in 91 I had paid 45K for this car, would I have felt it was money well spent. The answer for me was always no, no matter how many times I wanted the answer to be yes. I'd still have felt short changed.
My 993 is a motor I can't see me selling for a long time if I was honest; it is more civilised than a 964; most importantly, I'm far more comfortable driving it down roads quickly that I have not driven before, I never felt that way or as safe in the 964. I also could never get it in my head how a 88% new model 911 (the 964) was to me at least so poorly executed, the 993 seems streets ahead in comparison, especially in NVH, which with a 993 you can add, but can't take out of a 964.
The above is only my opinion though..
Saying that, I reckon if I jumped in a 964 now, I'd understand the car better, as instead of being my first air-cooled 911, it would be my fourth.
So after the waffle. I'd say if you have never owned/driven an air-cooled 911 before, then both feel a lot newer and better (to me) than the 3.2 before them (of which I have also owned), but they still and especially the 964 seems an older car to drive say compared to your Cosy.
You need to drive both and keep an open mind, prices are strong so if you didn't get on with the one, you could always swap it for the other.
Funny thing I remember about the 964. I used to keep asking myself, if back in 91 I had paid 45K for this car, would I have felt it was money well spent. The answer for me was always no, no matter how many times I wanted the answer to be yes. I'd still have felt short changed.
My 993 is a motor I can't see me selling for a long time if I was honest; it is more civilised than a 964; most importantly, I'm far more comfortable driving it down roads quickly that I have not driven before, I never felt that way or as safe in the 964. I also could never get it in my head how a 88% new model 911 (the 964) was to me at least so poorly executed, the 993 seems streets ahead in comparison, especially in NVH, which with a 993 you can add, but can't take out of a 964.
The above is only my opinion though..
Saying that, I reckon if I jumped in a 964 now, I'd understand the car better, as instead of being my first air-cooled 911, it would be my fourth.
So after the waffle. I'd say if you have never owned/driven an air-cooled 911 before, then both feel a lot newer and better (to me) than the 3.2 before them (of which I have also owned), but they still and especially the 964 seems an older car to drive say compared to your Cosy.
You need to drive both and keep an open mind, prices are strong so if you didn't get on with the one, you could always swap it for the other
. Edited by Wozy68 on Saturday 1st February 20:20
Evening folks.
Tis a while since I posted this up and after more interesting reading I am still very much undecided.
Mentioned earlier was the 'sharkfins'. What and where are those.
I still am the uninitiated here, still not driven either, unfortunately work dictates otherwise. But the research is interesting.
So, is there a marked difference in engineering, and therefore reliability between the two? And I keep hearing about the usual oil leaks, should I be concerned here. I would really like something I can work on so oil leaks wouldn't put me off and I would seriously consider a project.
There are examples with 150K on them. These surely without a lot of engine work are a matter of time before something big and expensive lets go.
I like the more old school look of the 964 but swayed by the better? engineered 993.
All opinions greatly received.
Many thanks.
Tis a while since I posted this up and after more interesting reading I am still very much undecided.
Mentioned earlier was the 'sharkfins'. What and where are those.
I still am the uninitiated here, still not driven either, unfortunately work dictates otherwise. But the research is interesting.
So, is there a marked difference in engineering, and therefore reliability between the two? And I keep hearing about the usual oil leaks, should I be concerned here. I would really like something I can work on so oil leaks wouldn't put me off and I would seriously consider a project.
There are examples with 150K on them. These surely without a lot of engine work are a matter of time before something big and expensive lets go.
I like the more old school look of the 964 but swayed by the better? engineered 993.
All opinions greatly received.
Many thanks.
They are both great cars in my view. The biggest difference is actually the rear suspension. The 993 has the 'weissach axle' which gives it much higher rear handling limits and adhesion. The 964 moves around more.
How you view this is up to you.
My view is that you should look at both and find the best car you can find for your budget.
How you view this is up to you.
My view is that you should look at both and find the best car you can find for your budget.
mollytherocker said:
They are both great cars in my view. The biggest difference is actually the rear suspension. The 993 has the 'weissach axle' which gives it much higher rear handling limits and adhesion. The 964 moves around more.
How you view this is up to you.
My view is that you should look at both and find the best car you can find for your budget.
This is sound advice. If you don't have strong feelings either way its all about condition if the car in your budget. The way prices are going though I wouldn't dither about as you may need to raise your budget. How you view this is up to you.
My view is that you should look at both and find the best car you can find for your budget.
Well stupid question time.
So why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
So why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
Muffster said:
Well stupid question time.
So why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
early tips (ie 964/993) are pretty awful now, and not the purists/enthusiasts choice which are the people who buy 20 year old carsSo why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
also I don't understand your argument - motorway is where you rarely need to change gear so a manual is no extra work, auto is far more advantageous if you do a lot of urban driving
Muffster said:
Well stupid question time.
So why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
If you like automatics, then by all means buy one.So why are the tiptronics less desirable. I'm not ready for slippers yet but having done an awful lot of motorway miles I do now appreciate an auto. (FFRR and Cayenne S)Looking forward to a Euro trip in the future.
Does auto = less driver experience and appreciation on the car.
Its up to you.
Adam B said:
early tips (ie 964/993) are pretty awful now, and not the purists/enthusiasts choice which are the people who buy 20 year old cars
also I don't understand your argument - motorway is where you rarely need to change gear so a manual is no extra work, auto is far more advantageous if you do a lot of urban driving
Hello mate.also I don't understand your argument - motorway is where you rarely need to change gear so a manual is no extra work, auto is far more advantageous if you do a lot of urban driving
Not so much an argument. 'rarely need to change gear'
Did Plymouth to Bradford on Friday, it took over 7 hours!! Just a couple of gear changes.
Anyway, just trying to gauge the opinions and experience on those in the know.
Choices, choices Gents and the choices are exciting. Don't want to make the wrong decision.
I wouldn't say a tip 'ruins' the 911 experience, and 7 hours on a motorway would be a right old pain in a manual 911.
Actually you just may have got your answer, a manual 993 I find is an easier car to drive distance than the 964 I had, also the later 993 tip is I believe a more advanced version compared to the 964.
After being stuck on the m6 on Friday for only an hour in my manual 993, if I had to commute on the UKs busy roads in her, then a tip would be spot on.
Actually you just may have got your answer, a manual 993 I find is an easier car to drive distance than the 964 I had, also the later 993 tip is I believe a more advanced version compared to the 964.
After being stuck on the m6 on Friday for only an hour in my manual 993, if I had to commute on the UKs busy roads in her, then a tip would be spot on.
Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 16th March 08:43
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