Advice Needed on Car Finance Dispute
Discussion
Afternoon All,
I have found myself in a bit of a pickle. I part exchanged my old car in for my new one at the end of September 2013. There was no money exchanged as it was a like for like swap. All that needed doing was to transfer the finance from one to the other.
I was having trouble getting a hard copy of the settlement agreement so the dealer told me that he only needed to know how much was left to settle.
Went up, viewed the car, was happy with it and signed the docs. Drove away that night. At no point can I recall him telling me he needed the settlement agreement physically sent to him, just who it was with.
From then to now. I have only just noticed (actually just after christmas) that I am still paying for the first car AND the second (current) car. There are many reasons for this; moving house, losing job and the christmas period. Obviously the balance hasnt been settled with the first finance company. In general terms, he opened up finance on the new car, bought my old car off me and didnt settle the remaining finance with the old finance company.
After speaking with the garage he told me he needed to see a settlement agreement and was confident he could sort it out. Bearing in mind he has since sold the first car to a private customer.
He said that all he needed to do was send the most recent settlement agreement over and he would sort it out with the finance company.
He now refuses to do anything as the new finance company are chasing him for an update. His solution is to buy the old car back off the customer and give it to me...I can then 'do what you want with it'.
My concern is that I am paying for finance on 2 cars, one which I dont have and has been sold by a dealer whilst finance is still outstanding on it.
My thoughts are to ask the old insurance company for the original settlement agreement requested, but not received, at the end of September. I should then be able to pass this on to the dealer to get it paid off. This may be an issue of the dealer is now refusing to talk to me.
I understand that I should have made sure the dealer had all finance documents, regardless of whether or not he asked for them...ignorance is no excuse.
Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to PM me if you dont want to share any onfo publicly.
Ta
PS - this isnt a troll, social awareness experiment or other such time wasting poke...I am genuinely concerned about this!
I have found myself in a bit of a pickle. I part exchanged my old car in for my new one at the end of September 2013. There was no money exchanged as it was a like for like swap. All that needed doing was to transfer the finance from one to the other.
I was having trouble getting a hard copy of the settlement agreement so the dealer told me that he only needed to know how much was left to settle.
Went up, viewed the car, was happy with it and signed the docs. Drove away that night. At no point can I recall him telling me he needed the settlement agreement physically sent to him, just who it was with.
From then to now. I have only just noticed (actually just after christmas) that I am still paying for the first car AND the second (current) car. There are many reasons for this; moving house, losing job and the christmas period. Obviously the balance hasnt been settled with the first finance company. In general terms, he opened up finance on the new car, bought my old car off me and didnt settle the remaining finance with the old finance company.
After speaking with the garage he told me he needed to see a settlement agreement and was confident he could sort it out. Bearing in mind he has since sold the first car to a private customer.
He said that all he needed to do was send the most recent settlement agreement over and he would sort it out with the finance company.
He now refuses to do anything as the new finance company are chasing him for an update. His solution is to buy the old car back off the customer and give it to me...I can then 'do what you want with it'.
My concern is that I am paying for finance on 2 cars, one which I dont have and has been sold by a dealer whilst finance is still outstanding on it.
My thoughts are to ask the old insurance company for the original settlement agreement requested, but not received, at the end of September. I should then be able to pass this on to the dealer to get it paid off. This may be an issue of the dealer is now refusing to talk to me.
I understand that I should have made sure the dealer had all finance documents, regardless of whether or not he asked for them...ignorance is no excuse.
Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to PM me if you dont want to share any onfo publicly.
Ta
PS - this isnt a troll, social awareness experiment or other such time wasting poke...I am genuinely concerned about this!
That is quite s sticky situation! Officially, you are responsible and liable to ensure that the original finance agreement is settled off. The dealer would have needed a full settlement figure from your original finance company showing all agreement details and, of course, how to pay.
Do you still have the original settlement figure from the finance company that was valid when you did the swap? The settlement figure will have reduced now. I would be expecting the dealer to settle the original finance company immediately, and reimburse any payments you have made on that agreement since the swapover.
He's also sold a car to someone that he is not the owner of without settling the finance - he would be in a an awful lot of trouble with the OFT if they were to find out about this.
Do you still have the original settlement figure from the finance company that was valid when you did the swap? The settlement figure will have reduced now. I would be expecting the dealer to settle the original finance company immediately, and reimburse any payments you have made on that agreement since the swapover.
He's also sold a car to someone that he is not the owner of without settling the finance - he would be in a an awful lot of trouble with the OFT if they were to find out about this.
rfoster said:
That is quite s sticky situation! Officially, you are responsible and liable to ensure that the original finance agreement is settled off. The dealer would have needed a full settlement figure from your original finance company showing all agreement details and, of course, how to pay.
Do you still have the original settlement figure from the finance company that was valid when you did the swap? The settlement figure will have reduced now. I would be expecting the dealer to settle the original finance company immediately, and reimburse any payments you have made on that agreement since the swapover.
He's also sold a car to someone that he is not the owner of without settling the finance - he would be in a an awful lot of trouble with the OFT if they were to find out about this.
I am getting the original finance company to send the original settlement agreement over to me ASAP.Do you still have the original settlement figure from the finance company that was valid when you did the swap? The settlement figure will have reduced now. I would be expecting the dealer to settle the original finance company immediately, and reimburse any payments you have made on that agreement since the swapover.
He's also sold a car to someone that he is not the owner of without settling the finance - he would be in a an awful lot of trouble with the OFT if they were to find out about this.
Quite a long OP so detail might be missed - the dealer's solution is to buy my old car back off the person he sold it to and basically give it to me. Looks like he is quickly trying to get this off his hands.
Is there a way I can work this around in my favour?
That's a mess, it's not great for the dealer either as he's now holding a car he can't really sell - although, would he be the first dealer in history to try to avoid paying off outstanding finance until he's at least taken a deposit on it? Certainly not, and excuses are like a
holes.
For the quickest resolution I'd get a new settlement figure in writing, give it to the dealer and insist he clears in now, in full, while you're waiting and pay you the remaining balance - it will mean you've lost two months of interest payments, but nothing will change that really.
holes.For the quickest resolution I'd get a new settlement figure in writing, give it to the dealer and insist he clears in now, in full, while you're waiting and pay you the remaining balance - it will mean you've lost two months of interest payments, but nothing will change that really.
Do yourself a favour and speak with the Financial Ombudsman Service, www.finacial-ombudsman.org.uk, but get both finance agreement numbers to hand before you speak with them.. Good Luck
Bisonhead said:
I am getting the original finance company to send the original settlement agreement over to me ASAP.
Quite a long OP so detail might be missed - the dealer's solution is to buy my old car back off the person he sold it to and basically give it to me. Looks like he is quickly trying to get this off his hands.
Is there a way I can work this around in my favour?
Where does that benefit you? I'm assuming you don't want the old car back. I think if you start pushing him for compensation of some sort it could Pete Tong quickly - just get him to clear the finance and reimburse any payments you've made in the meantime.Quite a long OP so detail might be missed - the dealer's solution is to buy my old car back off the person he sold it to and basically give it to me. Looks like he is quickly trying to get this off his hands.
Is there a way I can work this around in my favour?
Bisonhead said:
I am getting the original finance company to send the original settlement agreement over to me ASAP.
Quite a long OP so detail might be missed - the dealer's solution is to buy my old car back off the person he sold it to and basically give it to me. Looks like he is quickly trying to get this off his hands.
Is there a way I can work this around in my favour?
Oh lord no, don't do that - well unless you fancy selling it privately for more than you part-ex'd it for? Either way, unless it's a quick seller and worth more privately than he gave you I wouldn't.Quite a long OP so detail might be missed - the dealer's solution is to buy my old car back off the person he sold it to and basically give it to me. Looks like he is quickly trying to get this off his hands.
Is there a way I can work this around in my favour?
I'd be incredibly mindful why the dealer would go to such lengths to un-do a deal, do we assume his customer is happily driving about in your old car and yet he's trying to buy it back rather than settle the finance? Why? makes no sense.
The whole thing smells like a rat, get him to get you out of the finance quickly - speak to the finance co and let them know what's up, but ffs don't try to withhold payment or anything like that, it will just make you the enemy.
All of this rings a bell.
A few years ago the firm I worked for bought a 2 years E320 cdi Merc and p/ex a Passat
We found a little while later we were paying for both.
Trader had not paid off the Passat
He changed his story and decided that as a favour he'd been trying to sell the Passat for us. He'd had it out at a traders who had gone bust.
He offered to undo the deal, or take the Passat back.
It all got a bit legal, and his solicitor was far better than our weak one and we were advised to take the Passat back. I remain unconvinced that was the best advice, although it might have been the most cost effective.
When I picked it up it had done 6k miles, stank of fags, was below minimum oil and needed water (coolant and washer).
This was an MB specialist who worked from home on the border of Hampshire/Surrey.
A few years ago the firm I worked for bought a 2 years E320 cdi Merc and p/ex a Passat
We found a little while later we were paying for both.
Trader had not paid off the Passat
He changed his story and decided that as a favour he'd been trying to sell the Passat for us. He'd had it out at a traders who had gone bust.
He offered to undo the deal, or take the Passat back.
It all got a bit legal, and his solicitor was far better than our weak one and we were advised to take the Passat back. I remain unconvinced that was the best advice, although it might have been the most cost effective.
When I picked it up it had done 6k miles, stank of fags, was below minimum oil and needed water (coolant and washer).
This was an MB specialist who worked from home on the border of Hampshire/Surrey.
Finance companies are normally very quick at issuing a settlement letter. Normally by the time my phone goes down the fax is printing one out.
9 times out of 10 you can get the figure over the phone.
We now insist that the settlement comes direct from finance company to us- we once had a customer 'amend' his settlement by circa £2000.
I personally would get a hard copy of the letter and go visit the dealer. If he refuses to speak further to you about it now, it hardly sounds like an oversight.
9 times out of 10 you can get the figure over the phone.
We now insist that the settlement comes direct from finance company to us- we once had a customer 'amend' his settlement by circa £2000.
I personally would get a hard copy of the letter and go visit the dealer. If he refuses to speak further to you about it now, it hardly sounds like an oversight.
Ask the finance company for a CURRENT settlement letter. This will account for your payments in the interim so will be a reduced settlement from a retrospective on dated in September - which they won't issue.
Take this letter to the dealer - also instruct the finance company to fax a settlement letter to the dealer. Dealer settles the finance now.
Yes you'll be out of pocket to the tune of the interest between then and now, but the onus was on you to produce the settlement letter when originally requested by the dealer.
Of course you may ask the dealer if they will recompense you for this amount because they know full well they should have settled it straight away and they had no business selling it on to another private indvidual who could find their new car repossessed by the finance company if you stopped paying, through no fault of their own as they bough tin good faith from the dealer (although they should have HPI checked the car/asked to see the dealer's HPI check confirming no outstanding financial interest BEFORE purchasing).
It's a bit of a clusterfk all round, but simply enough solved.
Take this letter to the dealer - also instruct the finance company to fax a settlement letter to the dealer. Dealer settles the finance now.
Yes you'll be out of pocket to the tune of the interest between then and now, but the onus was on you to produce the settlement letter when originally requested by the dealer.
Of course you may ask the dealer if they will recompense you for this amount because they know full well they should have settled it straight away and they had no business selling it on to another private indvidual who could find their new car repossessed by the finance company if you stopped paying, through no fault of their own as they bough tin good faith from the dealer (although they should have HPI checked the car/asked to see the dealer's HPI check confirming no outstanding financial interest BEFORE purchasing).
It's a bit of a clusterf
k all round, but simply enough solved. Thanks for the replies everyone.
I am getting the original settlement agreement from the time of purchase, sent to me ASAP.
The financial ombudsman has suggested that I write a formal complaint to the dealer which will give him 8 weeks to to accept or decline.
I wont try and play any tricks with this, going by the advice posted above. What I was thinking on doing is writing a letter of complaint and outlining what I want to be done (settlement paid plus monthly payments incurred). What are your thoughts on this?
I am getting the original settlement agreement from the time of purchase, sent to me ASAP.
The financial ombudsman has suggested that I write a formal complaint to the dealer which will give him 8 weeks to to accept or decline.
I wont try and play any tricks with this, going by the advice posted above. What I was thinking on doing is writing a letter of complaint and outlining what I want to be done (settlement paid plus monthly payments incurred). What are your thoughts on this?
Zwolf said:
Ask the finance company for a CURRENT settlement letter. This will account for your payments in the interim so will be a reduced settlement from a retrospective on dated in September - which they won't issue.
The finance company have agreed to send the retrospective SA to me. This gives the settlement amount we agreed on at the time of purchaseBisonhead said:
What I want to be done (settlement paid plus monthly payments incurred). What are your thoughts on this?
That would put you in a better position than you were in, had everything happened as it should and is unlikely to happen. It didn't happen as it should - at least in part - because YOU failed to supply the settlement letter at the appropriate time.
At the best you should end up in the correct position you should have been in when the deal was originally done.
If the dealer settles the finance based on September's figure, NOT taking into account payments made to the finance company by you between then and now, the finance company are the ones in profit by the amount you've paid them between those dates, not the dealer.
So the dealer needs to settle the current finance liability and pay you the difference between that and the original amount accounted for when they brought your PX into stock.
Bisonhead said:
The finance company have agreed to send the retrospective SA to me. This gives the settlement amount we agreed on at the time of purchase
Are they refunding the payments you have made to them between then and now? They should be if they have produced a retrospective settlement letter. In 14 years in the trade I've never heard of a finance company able or willing to do such a thing. It's always a current figure valid for either 30 days or until one day before your next routine monthly payment (subject to lender).
Edited by Zwolf on Monday 3rd February 15:40
P-Jay said:
I'd be incredibly mindful why the dealer would go to such lengths to un-do a deal, do we assume his customer is happily driving about in your old car and yet he's trying to buy it back rather than settle the finance? Why? makes no sense.
Agree. Something very weird there. My first thought would be that he hasn't sold it at all and he either still has it or someone is running around in it for free.Zwolf said:
Bisonhead said:
What I want to be done (settlement paid plus monthly payments incurred). What are your thoughts on this?
That would put you in a better position than you were in, had everything happened as it should and is unlikely to happen. It didn't happen as it should - at least in part - because YOU failed to supply the settlement letter at the appropriate time.
At the best you should end up in the correct position you should have been in when the deal was originally done.
If the dealer settles the finance based on September's figure, NOT taking into account payments made to the finance company by you between then and now, the finance company are the ones in profit by the amount you've paid them between those dates, not the dealer.
So the dealer needs to settle the current finance liability and pay you the difference between that and the original amount accounted for when they brought your PX into stock.
Bisonhead said:
The finance company have agreed to send the retrospective SA to me. This gives the settlement amount we agreed on at the time of purchase
Are they refunding the payments you have made to them between then and now? They should be if they have produced a retrospective settlement letter. In 14 years in the trade I've never heard of a finance company able or willing to do such a thing. It's always a current figure valid for either 30 days or until one day before your next routine monthly payment (subject to lender).
Edited by Zwolf on Monday 3rd February 15:40
To be honest, I am happy to take that hit and chalk it up to experience...be more meticulous in the future.
After speaking to OFT they suggested calling the new finance company and citing Section 56 of the consumer credit act. This means that they are liable for claims made by the dealer and must pay the finance on the first car until settled (early or otherwise)
Does anyone have experience of this section?
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