BMW E39 M5 Rear Subframe Bushes
Discussion
Hi,
I've recently purchased a 2001 M5. Over the lasy couple of days I've noticed what I think may be worn rear subframe bushes. If I go on/off throttle quickly I get a, what only can described as a "thunking"? from the rear of the car? And on light throttle it feels as if the car has a "rocking" motion? Strange.
So just wondered if anybody had a thoughts on what it could be.
I've ordered 4 new bushes anyway as the old ones look like they have never been changed. I had to order a tool also!
Cheers.
I've recently purchased a 2001 M5. Over the lasy couple of days I've noticed what I think may be worn rear subframe bushes. If I go on/off throttle quickly I get a, what only can described as a "thunking"? from the rear of the car? And on light throttle it feels as if the car has a "rocking" motion? Strange.
So just wondered if anybody had a thoughts on what it could be.
I've ordered 4 new bushes anyway as the old ones look like they have never been changed. I had to order a tool also!
Cheers.
I've got an E39 530d manual (MY2000) & a E39 M5 (MY2001).
Had the same sort of complaint as yourself on the 530d and had the flex disc ('doughnut') changed on the propshaft but the thunk didn't go away so I'm getting the subframe bushes changed, too, quite soon. Hope this works. A knackered flex disc can give similar symptoms so you might want to think about changing that also. It will mean dropping the exhaust, which can be a pain as the manifold bolts will be seized (probably).
Perhaps a simple visual inspection of the doughnut might prove productive? It would mean moving heat shields, then look for cracks/splits etc., although wear doesn't always show to the naked eye whilst the doughnut is still on the car (so I am told by my spannerman).
(Though it didn't really need it, had a major drivetrain overhaul done to the M5 when I got it - including the doughnut. It runs sweetly although there is a very minor NVH - noise, vibration, harshness - a sort of quiet 'whoa, whoa' noise on the overrun at certain speeds which I think is related to the front tyres.)
Had the same sort of complaint as yourself on the 530d and had the flex disc ('doughnut') changed on the propshaft but the thunk didn't go away so I'm getting the subframe bushes changed, too, quite soon. Hope this works. A knackered flex disc can give similar symptoms so you might want to think about changing that also. It will mean dropping the exhaust, which can be a pain as the manifold bolts will be seized (probably).
Perhaps a simple visual inspection of the doughnut might prove productive? It would mean moving heat shields, then look for cracks/splits etc., although wear doesn't always show to the naked eye whilst the doughnut is still on the car (so I am told by my spannerman).
(Though it didn't really need it, had a major drivetrain overhaul done to the M5 when I got it - including the doughnut. It runs sweetly although there is a very minor NVH - noise, vibration, harshness - a sort of quiet 'whoa, whoa' noise on the overrun at certain speeds which I think is related to the front tyres.)
If you're doing the subframe bushes then swapping the guibo out could be done at the same time, saving time later. Depends how far you want to go with the work. Check for leaks from the input or output shafts on the diff, again, jobs in the same area.
Agreed, the flex-disc (or guibo, whatever) doesn't always show wear visually without being removed, same as thrust arm bushes/engine mounts/top mounts.
How are your rear AR bar brackets looking, BTW? Known to fail and worth upgrading to more solid items. Just a thought.
Agreed, the flex-disc (or guibo, whatever) doesn't always show wear visually without being removed, same as thrust arm bushes/engine mounts/top mounts.
How are your rear AR bar brackets looking, BTW? Known to fail and worth upgrading to more solid items. Just a thought.
Feeblebob said:
Depthhoar - Did the centre bearing get replaced at the same time as the rest of the overhaul?
Hi, Yes, replaced the centre bearing and pretty much all the associated stuff inc. items 1 to 12 inclusive on the diagram:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DE92...
Was told that the butyl strip (No.9) was pretty important to change as this helps isolate the body from some NVH created by the propshaft etc..
Thinking about it, the 'whoa, whoa' noise was evident (just) before the refresh, so the tyres may be the culprits? The M5 is wearing Bridgestone SO2 on the front axle at the moment and they're definitely getting close to the end of their useful life. I put a pair of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A on the back soon after purchase which were quieter, responsive and grippy so will probably go with them on the front and see if they help with the (very minor) NVH issue.
Thanks for the reply chaps. I'll replace the 4 subframe bushes and the centre"donut" this week and see if that makes any difference. Then I think I will systematically replace are the rubber and perishables over the next couple of months.
The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
Stevie750iL said:
Thanks for the reply chaps. I'll replace the 4 subframe bushes and the centre"donut" this week and see if that makes any difference. Then I think I will systematically replace are the rubber and perishables over the next couple of months.
The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
The are 7 bushes in total that are worth changing on the rear subframe: No.2 (the four you've already identified) but also No.9 (you'll need two of these) and No.6 (one required) in the diagram below:The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DE92...
Best also buy the bolts and locking nuts that hold the 3 additional bushes in place - Nos. 7,8, 10 & 11. The locking nuts are particularly important as they're not regular ones and can't (shouldn't) be re-used. (The locking nuts are slightly squashed in one plane when new and you can't just spin them on the bolt by hand). The part numbers are listed at the bottom of the diagram along with the total number of bolts/nuts required and will only be available from a BMW dealer.
You're right, they're great cars.
Someone, somewhere once said of them:
"Owning an BMW E39 M5 is like having hot sex with a big-titted Vegas showgirl: it'll absolutely blow your mind.. and almost certainly empty your wallet, too."
You're just beginning to find that out...! Enjoy.
Edited by Depthhoar on Tuesday 4th February 19:22
Thanks for the info Depthoar.
I'll order the parts mentioned tomorrow.
Truly epic car as you say. But yes a tad thirsty. I ran a 750iL for 4 years so know the lady behind the Shell counter really well!! In saying that did a round trip to Aberdeen today, 230 miles and averaged 27.7mpg? Not bad!! Sat a steady 70mph as the A90 has numerous GATSO's and boys in blue!
I'll order the parts mentioned tomorrow.
Truly epic car as you say. But yes a tad thirsty. I ran a 750iL for 4 years so know the lady behind the Shell counter really well!! In saying that did a round trip to Aberdeen today, 230 miles and averaged 27.7mpg? Not bad!! Sat a steady 70mph as the A90 has numerous GATSO's and boys in blue!
I recently did the 4 main subframe bushes on my E39 540 along with the diff bushes. The main subframe bushes are a pain as you have to leave them under tension and they 'creep' out, can't just wind them out like the diff bushes. Also had to make an extractor tube large enough to let the bush pass through it yet small enough to sit on the lip round the bush. Definitely the most time consuming bush change I have had to do!!
sydown said:
I recently did the 4 main subframe bushes on my E39 540 along with the diff bushes. The main subframe bushes are a pain as you have to leave them under tension and they 'creep' out, can't just wind them out like the diff bushes. Also had to make an extractor tube large enough to let the bush pass through it yet small enough to sit on the lip round the bush. Definitely the most time consuming bush change I have had to do!!
Sounds like a royal PITA of a job. My E39 530d is going in to my spannerman to get the rear subframe bushes (+ the diff ones) changed soon. When I took the car to him yesterday for a quick look at the scope of the job he said he'd need a special bush extractor tool to do it. So, as I have another E39 saloon that will eventually need this job done, I went and bought one off eBay. They can be mighty expensive at £200-£250, but I found this Sykes Pickavant one at £90 + postage:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-SPECIAL-TOOLS-E39-5-...
They had a 'Make an Offer' deal on it so offered £75 which was accepted (+ £13 postage). Might be worth trying a slightly lower offer? Bear in mind this tool is for E39 saloons only, not Tourings.
Thought it was a stunning deal on a top quality tool which will save ££s in labour...and much wailing and gnashing of teeth from my spannerman.
Stevie750iL said:
Thanks for the reply chaps. I'll replace the 4 subframe bushes and the centre"donut" this week and see if that makes any difference. Then I think I will systematically replace are the rubber and perishables over the next couple of months.
The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
Whatever you do, don't become a sad little man who chases down every squeak, rattle, ding ,boing or any other such noise and then throws money at the BMW parts dept......one of those is quite enough!!The diff leak was addressed recently, as I have a bill for £400 odd by the previous owner.
Loving the car though. Simply fantastic.
I have just invested in the Sykes and Pickavant bush removal tool (08720300) from e-bay. I only paid £92 including P&P. It should make the job fairly straight forward IMO. I had fabricated tools in the past to do bushes but it takes a long time and not worth the hassle. I have to say the tool looks like a quality piece of kit. Still waiting on the bushes arriving from e-bay! So I'll let you know how I get on.
Stevie750iL said:
Do the 3 diff bushes require the removal of the diff? Or can I just drop the diff down a bit???
From what I can find out the diff needs to come out to replace those 3 bushes. Also, a special tool is needed to remove/replace the bushes once the diff is removed. The bush tool for the 4 sub frame bushes won't work with the 3 diff bushes but a modified rose bush tool (the bush in the wheel carrier - a v.common wear issue on E39s) will do the job...apparently. (Looked on M5board for info on this).
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