Type testing for sport?
Discussion
In the same way you can take those Myers-Briggs type tests that supposedly reveal what type of person you are and what things you might be good at. Are there any similar tests that are performed so that you can ascertain what type of training you might respond best to and what sports you may be genetically predisposed to excel at (or at least find easy to be good at).
I was thinking about this the other day when I mentioned on my CV how long I have been a competitive swimmer. I have always swam and while many would consider me to be a very good swimmer I think 20 odd years of practice plays more a part in that than natural ability. For instance the leap from where I am (55 sec for a 100 freestyle) to where current national level swimmers are (52 sec for 100 or less) is as vast as the gap between someone who doesn't swim at all and myself. It seems physically impossible for me to go that fast. Yet I watch their strokes and analyse what they do and all I can come up with is that they are just have higher natural ability, whether it be more flexible ankles, bigger feet and hands, greater lung and CV capacity or a physiology that just responds better to training there must be that natural edge that separates good people from elite people.
If it were just down to practice, I'd already be there. I know for a fact that in womens rowing they've started to target tall women whether they're rowed before or not because the natural advantage of longer levers is desirable. But that is rather specific.... are there any, I guess, generic tests that spit out a "you're a body type X with CV ability Y and therefore suited to sports Z1, Z2, Z3...."?
I was thinking about this the other day when I mentioned on my CV how long I have been a competitive swimmer. I have always swam and while many would consider me to be a very good swimmer I think 20 odd years of practice plays more a part in that than natural ability. For instance the leap from where I am (55 sec for a 100 freestyle) to where current national level swimmers are (52 sec for 100 or less) is as vast as the gap between someone who doesn't swim at all and myself. It seems physically impossible for me to go that fast. Yet I watch their strokes and analyse what they do and all I can come up with is that they are just have higher natural ability, whether it be more flexible ankles, bigger feet and hands, greater lung and CV capacity or a physiology that just responds better to training there must be that natural edge that separates good people from elite people.
If it were just down to practice, I'd already be there. I know for a fact that in womens rowing they've started to target tall women whether they're rowed before or not because the natural advantage of longer levers is desirable. But that is rather specific.... are there any, I guess, generic tests that spit out a "you're a body type X with CV ability Y and therefore suited to sports Z1, Z2, Z3...."?
There was an initiative linked to the London Olympics where school and college kids (possibly uni too) were tested in various ways which, when combined with their natural physical attributes, was used to steer them towards certain sports, with a view to discovering the next generation of GB Olympians (I'm not sure what those tests were).
And at the Body Power show last year there was a company offering genetic / DNA mapping, the results of which could be used to focus your diet and training in the most effective manner...how accurate / useful it really is I'm not sure.
Beyond that I suppose you could go as far as a muscle biopsy to determine your muscle composition etc and find a sport / training plan that best suits.
And at the Body Power show last year there was a company offering genetic / DNA mapping, the results of which could be used to focus your diet and training in the most effective manner...how accurate / useful it really is I'm not sure.
Beyond that I suppose you could go as far as a muscle biopsy to determine your muscle composition etc and find a sport / training plan that best suits.
are you specifically looking for a new sport to take up (and compete at a high level, national champs, commie games, olympic level....)? or you looking at a new sport for fun? or you looking at ways to develop as a swimmer towards national standards?
I dont know what level you currently swim at, but to me, to be within 10% of national level times, you are a lot closer than you think. you are now into the level of competition where you are not suddenly going to knock 1 second off your times.
how much are you training? how many sessions in the pool? whats your strength and conditioning programme like? are you coached? suffer from any recurring injuries? do you work full time on top of training?
I come from a background in canoe slalom (scottish and british teams as a junior, rankend top 30 in the country) and when i stopped properly training/competing (had to make the decision of focus solely on canoeing or get a real job). thankfully canoeing didnt have a 'perfect' body type/size/weight etc... but the difference between full time athlete and talented amatuer is huge!
I dont know what level you currently swim at, but to me, to be within 10% of national level times, you are a lot closer than you think. you are now into the level of competition where you are not suddenly going to knock 1 second off your times.
how much are you training? how many sessions in the pool? whats your strength and conditioning programme like? are you coached? suffer from any recurring injuries? do you work full time on top of training?
I come from a background in canoe slalom (scottish and british teams as a junior, rankend top 30 in the country) and when i stopped properly training/competing (had to make the decision of focus solely on canoeing or get a real job). thankfully canoeing didnt have a 'perfect' body type/size/weight etc... but the difference between full time athlete and talented amatuer is huge!
Oh no not looking to change. I enjoy swimming whether I get better or not. It was just having watched the british swimming lot + city of sheffield + a few old timers smash the world record for 100 x 100 m relay and then realising I have been swimming competitively for nearly 20 years, I have been wondering how people get so good at a sport. I certainly haven't lacked trying, especially in the past, but there has to be more to being that good than just training and practice.
I was also watching that Horizon program about exercise where the host finds out that his body simply does not respond to training designed to improve VO2 max. Using genetic testing they were also able to tell that this would be the case before he even tried.
I used to train with a lad at my old cub. He was much younger than I was. He came from no where to being faster than me at everything and was national champ at 200 fly for consecutive years. He packed it in in the end which is a shame because no one could touch him. Still, we did the same training and yet he got better every time he dipped a toe in the water!
We did the same amounts of each stroke pretty much but even back then when we trained 20 hours a week + he'd knock out any length of fly like it was nothing. To this day I still struggle to do more than a good 50m and numerous people can't see that I am doing anything particularly wrong with my stroke.
I have always taken it as it being a stroke you either can or can't do and no amount of practice will change that. But now I was considering why. What made his body different to mine, that meant he could do fly till the cows came home and I couldn't?
Purely a curiosity this.
I was also watching that Horizon program about exercise where the host finds out that his body simply does not respond to training designed to improve VO2 max. Using genetic testing they were also able to tell that this would be the case before he even tried.
I used to train with a lad at my old cub. He was much younger than I was. He came from no where to being faster than me at everything and was national champ at 200 fly for consecutive years. He packed it in in the end which is a shame because no one could touch him. Still, we did the same training and yet he got better every time he dipped a toe in the water!
We did the same amounts of each stroke pretty much but even back then when we trained 20 hours a week + he'd knock out any length of fly like it was nothing. To this day I still struggle to do more than a good 50m and numerous people can't see that I am doing anything particularly wrong with my stroke.
I have always taken it as it being a stroke you either can or can't do and no amount of practice will change that. But now I was considering why. What made his body different to mine, that meant he could do fly till the cows came home and I couldn't?
Purely a curiosity this.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th February 17:23
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 4th February 17:26
Drugs, innit, specially in swimming...
Of course I jest, swimming I think is a lot to do with some physical untrainable assets, and I'm thinking mostly size of hands and feet in comparison to other body parts, I mean we're only a nat's cock away from not being able to swim at all in fluid dynamics terms.
I also think that to get to the very highest level, especially in individual sports, you have to have very driven parents and a very driven single minded ambition through the most complex and chaotic periods of your life i.e adolescence. I love golf and am not terrible at and would love one of my kids to be good at it and enjoy the game too but the idea of letting my kid play for 6 hours a day at the exclusion of everything else in their life is probably a risk I'm not prepared to take.
Of course I jest, swimming I think is a lot to do with some physical untrainable assets, and I'm thinking mostly size of hands and feet in comparison to other body parts, I mean we're only a nat's cock away from not being able to swim at all in fluid dynamics terms.
I also think that to get to the very highest level, especially in individual sports, you have to have very driven parents and a very driven single minded ambition through the most complex and chaotic periods of your life i.e adolescence. I love golf and am not terrible at and would love one of my kids to be good at it and enjoy the game too but the idea of letting my kid play for 6 hours a day at the exclusion of everything else in their life is probably a risk I'm not prepared to take.
malks222 said:
are you specifically looking for a new sport to take up (and compete at a high level, national champs, commie games, olympic level....)? or you looking at a new sport for fun? or you looking at ways to develop as a swimmer towards national standards?
I dont know what level you currently swim at, but to me, to be within 10% of national level times, you are a lot closer than you think. you are now into the level of competition where you are not suddenly going to knock 1 second off your times.
how much are you training? how many sessions in the pool? whats your strength and conditioning programme like? are you coached? suffer from any recurring injuries? do you work full time on top of training?
I come from a background in canoe slalom (scottish and british teams as a junior, rankend top 30 in the country) and when i stopped properly training/competing (had to make the decision of focus solely on canoeing or get a real job). thankfully canoeing didnt have a 'perfect' body type/size/weight etc... but the difference between full time athlete and talented amatuer is huge!
Thought I'd respond to some of those things at the bottom because its quite interesting (to me)I dont know what level you currently swim at, but to me, to be within 10% of national level times, you are a lot closer than you think. you are now into the level of competition where you are not suddenly going to knock 1 second off your times.
how much are you training? how many sessions in the pool? whats your strength and conditioning programme like? are you coached? suffer from any recurring injuries? do you work full time on top of training?
I come from a background in canoe slalom (scottish and british teams as a junior, rankend top 30 in the country) and when i stopped properly training/competing (had to make the decision of focus solely on canoeing or get a real job). thankfully canoeing didnt have a 'perfect' body type/size/weight etc... but the difference between full time athlete and talented amatuer is huge!
I used to train 20 hours a week + gym, but now as you say, you have to make life choices. For me I was at uni when I realised I aint going much further and it would be better to focus on my studies. Good decision in the end I think given my result.
Now swim train is 3-4 times a week tops as thats all the club I go to have. So have supplemented with more gym work as well as trying my hand at surf lifesaving which is more multi-disciplinary. At the moment I have a proper gym programme and nutrition program, which is something I haven't had before (but neither did anyone else!) so will see how that goes. But the interesting thing is that, when younger I wasn't much cop at middle to long distance and today I am even worse, but my sprinting has remained the same if not gotten better. My fastest 50 and 100 Fc times have all been within the last year.
mattnunn said:
Drugs, innit, specially in swimming...
Of course I jest, swimming I think is a lot to do with some physical untrainable assets, and I'm thinking mostly size of hands and feet in comparison to other body parts, I mean we're only a nat's cock away from not being able to swim at all in fluid dynamics terms.
I also think that to get to the very highest level, especially in individual sports, you have to have very driven parents and a very driven single minded ambition through the most complex and chaotic periods of your life i.e adolescence. I love golf and am not terrible at and would love one of my kids to be good at it and enjoy the game too but the idea of letting my kid play for 6 hours a day at the exclusion of everything else in their life is probably a risk I'm not prepared to take.
I know what you mean. At secondary school and college, I did have friends, but nothing you'd call a close friendship. Due to swimming I very very rarely saw anyone from school out of school hours. Today I don't have a clue what any of them are doing. While they were hanging out in the town centre or later, in the pubs, I was in the pool. Looking back it definitely had an effect on my fashion sense as well ! hahaOf course I jest, swimming I think is a lot to do with some physical untrainable assets, and I'm thinking mostly size of hands and feet in comparison to other body parts, I mean we're only a nat's cock away from not being able to swim at all in fluid dynamics terms.
I also think that to get to the very highest level, especially in individual sports, you have to have very driven parents and a very driven single minded ambition through the most complex and chaotic periods of your life i.e adolescence. I love golf and am not terrible at and would love one of my kids to be good at it and enjoy the game too but the idea of letting my kid play for 6 hours a day at the exclusion of everything else in their life is probably a risk I'm not prepared to take.
At uni, when I quit the Loughborough squad I think I eventually became more rounded and I made good friends and had a great time. At the expense of my sport yes, but honestly I'd do the same again.
I would be just very interested to see what sport I maybe should have done to improve my chances of becoming elite level. I think in school I was naturally very good at the high jump. Springy legs, very bendy back, but I didn't care for it then. Swimming was everything.
There are various Talent ID schemes around to try to identify potential future sport stars while they are still young. There's recently been some debate over the effectiveness of such schemes though. Ross Tucker (@ScienceOfSport) on Twitter has some interesting links to some of the points.
ewenm said:
There are various Talent ID schemes around to try to identify potential future sport stars while they are still young. There's recently been some debate over the effectiveness of such schemes though. Ross Tucker (@ScienceOfSport) on Twitter has some interesting links to some of the points.
Ahh nice I'll check him out. Wouldn't mind a few papers to read to see how they work these things out. Thanks.yes, i think the dedication needed to make it is one of the biggest factors. you just need to look back at people who made it to the top in their sport and see how much they sacrificed to get there.
i think its especially tough at the secondary/high school/ university age, when all your friends are starting to spread their wings, other things going on in life and you feel that you miss out while going training, its too easy to be drawn into that life and thats why there will be such a high drop out rate at those ages. also they are probably the best years for getting the best training in and developing as an athlete.
i know i could have progressed further in sport, but i was happy i stopped competing when i did as i now have a much better all round life. i dont think i had the mental drive to push myself to be the best at canoeing every day and make every decision in life based on trying to be better at sport!however sport also gave me the life that I have today, I got to travel to some cool places, had lots of great trips abroad, made a lot of friends and just got me interested in elite sport.
i think its especially tough at the secondary/high school/ university age, when all your friends are starting to spread their wings, other things going on in life and you feel that you miss out while going training, its too easy to be drawn into that life and thats why there will be such a high drop out rate at those ages. also they are probably the best years for getting the best training in and developing as an athlete.
i know i could have progressed further in sport, but i was happy i stopped competing when i did as i now have a much better all round life. i dont think i had the mental drive to push myself to be the best at canoeing every day and make every decision in life based on trying to be better at sport!however sport also gave me the life that I have today, I got to travel to some cool places, had lots of great trips abroad, made a lot of friends and just got me interested in elite sport.
I think there is something in terms of Elite sports related to consistency of application in addition to the fitness element. Whenever I watch Elite sports, its the ability of the best to consistently do whatever they do.
Taking swimming as an example...(I know nothing about swimming :-)) ... but is the difference a fitness thing, or the fact that those extra 10th's come from the angle of entry of the hand, the exact moment of kick, the angle of the body etc etc...and doing the perfect stroke time after time without the slightest mistake. Training builds this but I can't help thinking some people have an aptitude for "boring accurate repetition" which gives them an advantage.
No evidence to any of this.....just my thoughts..
Taking swimming as an example...(I know nothing about swimming :-)) ... but is the difference a fitness thing, or the fact that those extra 10th's come from the angle of entry of the hand, the exact moment of kick, the angle of the body etc etc...and doing the perfect stroke time after time without the slightest mistake. Training builds this but I can't help thinking some people have an aptitude for "boring accurate repetition" which gives them an advantage.
No evidence to any of this.....just my thoughts..
i stopped at 18, i was at high 24's 50m free and low 34's 50m breast
never tried 100m, i suspect i would die now.
Weirdly i cannot fly at all, i drown for anything over 25m
swimming you need technique, big lung capicity, strength, muscle endurance, big flippers, and the typical V shaped body.
some of those you can train to gain, some you cant.
never tried 100m, i suspect i would die now.
Weirdly i cannot fly at all, i drown for anything over 25m
swimming you need technique, big lung capicity, strength, muscle endurance, big flippers, and the typical V shaped body.
some of those you can train to gain, some you cant.
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