A Commuter's Dilemma
Discussion
Evening all, long time lurker first time poster here.
I am in something of a quandary at the moment regarding a potential change of employment, which would radically change my commuting pattern. Thought I'd put it over to the wisdom of the PH community to gather wider opinion / anecdotal evidence.
The current scenario is as follows: I live in the home counties and work in central London. My commute comprises: cycle from home to station; take folding bike on train into London; cycle from London terminus into office, where there are showers,lockers and so forth. (I know, all cyclists are ******s, etc). Evening is a reverse of the procedure. Annual season ticket cost c. £3,600, and the door to door journey assuming all well with the trains takes 1h15m each way. It's not enjoyable, but it's bearable.
Mrs Shatner's is currently on maternity leave, but will be returning to work 3 days a week (also in central London) later this year, at which point Shatner's junior will be enrolled in a local (to home) nursery. We have looked at the logistics of nursery drop off and pickup, and have worked out a way to just manage to get him there and home again whilst keeping to our own contractual hours. This is a tight schedule, with very little margin for unexpected delays. It would also require us to leave a car at the station, which would cost us around £800 per year for a permit.
In the meantime, I have applied for a job outside London and have been invited in for interview, already had a telephone interview and it went well. The salary is at a similar level, and the employer encourages flexible working, which my current employer certainly does not. Flexi timing for me would buy the whole family a bit of breathing space in the morning and evening routine.
The drawback: their office location is 35 miles from home, and driving would be the only option realistically. The route would comprise A roads and northwestern section of the M25. On a clear run google reckons 45 minutes, but in peak traffic more like 1h10m-1h30m.
Current family wagon averages low 40s MPG, so by my reckoning fuel costs will be well under my current rail ticket costs. Increased wear and maintenance are a concern though - I would be racking up around 17,000 miles p.a. commuting alone.
Have any of the PH collective given up the rail commute into London and taken on an M25 commute instead, and what were your experiences? Which is less of a grind, day in day out?
I realise this is all contingent on my succeeding at interview, but any informed opinions would be gratefully received.
I am in something of a quandary at the moment regarding a potential change of employment, which would radically change my commuting pattern. Thought I'd put it over to the wisdom of the PH community to gather wider opinion / anecdotal evidence.
The current scenario is as follows: I live in the home counties and work in central London. My commute comprises: cycle from home to station; take folding bike on train into London; cycle from London terminus into office, where there are showers,lockers and so forth. (I know, all cyclists are ******s, etc). Evening is a reverse of the procedure. Annual season ticket cost c. £3,600, and the door to door journey assuming all well with the trains takes 1h15m each way. It's not enjoyable, but it's bearable.
Mrs Shatner's is currently on maternity leave, but will be returning to work 3 days a week (also in central London) later this year, at which point Shatner's junior will be enrolled in a local (to home) nursery. We have looked at the logistics of nursery drop off and pickup, and have worked out a way to just manage to get him there and home again whilst keeping to our own contractual hours. This is a tight schedule, with very little margin for unexpected delays. It would also require us to leave a car at the station, which would cost us around £800 per year for a permit.
In the meantime, I have applied for a job outside London and have been invited in for interview, already had a telephone interview and it went well. The salary is at a similar level, and the employer encourages flexible working, which my current employer certainly does not. Flexi timing for me would buy the whole family a bit of breathing space in the morning and evening routine.
The drawback: their office location is 35 miles from home, and driving would be the only option realistically. The route would comprise A roads and northwestern section of the M25. On a clear run google reckons 45 minutes, but in peak traffic more like 1h10m-1h30m.
Current family wagon averages low 40s MPG, so by my reckoning fuel costs will be well under my current rail ticket costs. Increased wear and maintenance are a concern though - I would be racking up around 17,000 miles p.a. commuting alone.
Have any of the PH collective given up the rail commute into London and taken on an M25 commute instead, and what were your experiences? Which is less of a grind, day in day out?
I realise this is all contingent on my succeeding at interview, but any informed opinions would be gratefully received.
spikeyhead said:
About ten years ago I commuted Luton to Hayes. It helps to be on the M25 before 6.30 in the morning. Mondays mornings and Friday evenings are worst, but any day with an M25 prang can be horrible. Average journey time would be 90 mins, and three hours is possible with an accident.
I used to do Hitchin-Feltham once/twice a week and exactly that - if I could be on the M25 before 07:00 (getting on at Kings Langley) it generally wasn't a problem at all.If it were me I wouldn't think twice
There are some days when the traffic will be grim, it happens, but you will be sat in your own vehicle, with no sweaty idiots near you and the ability to listen to the radio, smoke, fart, pick your nose whatever takes your fancy.
Also if its looking too bad, you have the option of getting off the MWay and trying to find a back route home
These are all things you cannot do on a train, being in control of your own destiny rather than at the mercy of strikes, bad weather etc is lovely
There are some days when the traffic will be grim, it happens, but you will be sat in your own vehicle, with no sweaty idiots near you and the ability to listen to the radio, smoke, fart, pick your nose whatever takes your fancy.
Also if its looking too bad, you have the option of getting off the MWay and trying to find a back route home
These are all things you cannot do on a train, being in control of your own destiny rather than at the mercy of strikes, bad weather etc is lovely
Last year, if I was staying at my girlfriends, I was driving from Reading to Brent Cross which was a combination of M4/25/40-A40/North Circular. It was absolutely horrific, especially compared with a previous commute of Clapham Junction to Farnborough Main on the train, which was 30 minutes and quiet as most people were going the other way in to town. I'd take the train over the car any day of the week if I was having to travel more than one junction of the M25.
I have a similar daily commute to your current one, even down to the folding bike. I also spent most of last year commuting by car to a different office (same company) about 35 miles from where I live.
On balance, I prefer the bike/train commute. You get down time on the train to read books, watch movies, etc whereas the car involves concentrating all the time. Both options seemed to go tits up about the same amount of time.
Another positive of the bike/train commute: it gives you a basic amount of exercise which keeps you fit. Without that, I had to find more time in the rest of the week to go out for a run or a ride.
But not a big deal really. I did get a bit fed up with the drive-time morons on the radio but ended up with loads of podcasts which are now building up unlistened to now I'm back on the train - one was a learn French podcast which is fine in a car but it's a bit embarrassing repeating out loud on the train!
On balance, I prefer the bike/train commute. You get down time on the train to read books, watch movies, etc whereas the car involves concentrating all the time. Both options seemed to go tits up about the same amount of time.
Another positive of the bike/train commute: it gives you a basic amount of exercise which keeps you fit. Without that, I had to find more time in the rest of the week to go out for a run or a ride.
But not a big deal really. I did get a bit fed up with the drive-time morons on the radio but ended up with loads of podcasts which are now building up unlistened to now I'm back on the train - one was a learn French podcast which is fine in a car but it's a bit embarrassing repeating out loud on the train!
How flexible is the flexible working likely to be?
Any opportunity to spend a day working from home - this could make a big difference to your stress level
Personally I'd take the flexitime job and live with the drive as you will be more in control
I used to drive the M25 from Chingford to Aylesbury every day - a pail but manageable.
I love the train and also have a folding bike for London trips but for your scenario I think flexibility and control would win out
Any opportunity to spend a day working from home - this could make a big difference to your stress level
Personally I'd take the flexitime job and live with the drive as you will be more in control
I used to drive the M25 from Chingford to Aylesbury every day - a pail but manageable.
I love the train and also have a folding bike for London trips but for your scenario I think flexibility and control would win out
I've done both long rail and long car commutes before, and commuting by rail was a much more relaxing affair and robbed me of less time out of my day as you can read, do a bit of work, even sleep.
Though i'd be nervous about your child care arrangements as well. If you both work in Central London and there is a big delay on the train then you will both be stuck, do you have a totally reliable insurance policy for picking your child up (grandparents, close friends) as, if it's close time wise as it is, then you're likely to get stuffed reasonably often due to broken down trains etc.
You also have to take into account which job you would really rather do, as this is likely to impact your happiness. I would also make sure that your new employer agrees to your flexible working request in writing prior to taking the job. All employers must legally say they will consider flexible working, but as you know from your current job, the reality is often different.
Though i'd be nervous about your child care arrangements as well. If you both work in Central London and there is a big delay on the train then you will both be stuck, do you have a totally reliable insurance policy for picking your child up (grandparents, close friends) as, if it's close time wise as it is, then you're likely to get stuffed reasonably often due to broken down trains etc.
You also have to take into account which job you would really rather do, as this is likely to impact your happiness. I would also make sure that your new employer agrees to your flexible working request in writing prior to taking the job. All employers must legally say they will consider flexible working, but as you know from your current job, the reality is often different.
£3.600 For a train ticket that takes some believing for a three hr train journey a day.
All that travelling just to get to work.My longest distance was half hr ride by bicycle when I was employed.We moved closer to my place of work and it took me ten minutes by bicycle.
Times have changed my son in law travels 1 hr drive to work.Daughter about half hr by car.I'm retired now sleep in,except when I have to babysit.>;)
All that travelling just to get to work.My longest distance was half hr ride by bicycle when I was employed.We moved closer to my place of work and it took me ten minutes by bicycle.
Times have changed my son in law travels 1 hr drive to work.Daughter about half hr by car.I'm retired now sleep in,except when I have to babysit.>;)
Foppo said:
£3.600 For a train ticket that takes some believing for a three hr train journey
Tell me about it, but fairly normal these days for those of us who choose to live out in the Home Counties but work in the smoke. If I had a tube season ticket as well that'd be another £900 or so on top. Madness, but many, many people do it. Thanks all for some very useful thoughts on the matter. I haven't worked out how to quote multiple posts in one, but I agree with the general message that the flexi working arrangement would need to be agreed in full around my family's needs before I took the leap. It's how to phrase that politely at interview that's going to take some thought.
Frankly, I'd love a motorbike to commute on, but lack of cbt, licence or spousal support for the concept prevent me exploring this option further
Burrow01 said:
How flexible is the flexible working likely to be?
Any opportunity to spend a day working from home - this could make a big difference to your stress level
Personally I'd take the flexitime job and live with the drive as you will be more in control
I used to drive the M25 from Chingford to Aylesbury every day - a pail but manageable.
I love the train and also have a folding bike for London trips but for your scenario I think flexibility and control would win out
Flexi time and the ability to work from home is invaluable when you have a sprog. Any opportunity to spend a day working from home - this could make a big difference to your stress level
Personally I'd take the flexitime job and live with the drive as you will be more in control
I used to drive the M25 from Chingford to Aylesbury every day - a pail but manageable.
I love the train and also have a folding bike for London trips but for your scenario I think flexibility and control would win out
pp
Hi all, thanks for the continued thoughts on the matter. Really struggling to use the quote function on here for some reason.
Anyway, the hypothetical commute would be Berkhamsted,HP4 to Letchworth, SG6. Most obvious route would be A41 -> M25 clockwise -> A1(M) North. Google maps shows an alternative via Hemel Hempstead, M1, A505 but these look to be 6 and half a dozen time-wise.
A previous poster made a valid point regarding my fitness level if I gave up the daily cycling, which certainly keeps my base level fitness OK. The job package would include very subsidised gym membership close to the office, but as with everything it would be a case of finding the time.
Anyway, the hypothetical commute would be Berkhamsted,HP4 to Letchworth, SG6. Most obvious route would be A41 -> M25 clockwise -> A1(M) North. Google maps shows an alternative via Hemel Hempstead, M1, A505 but these look to be 6 and half a dozen time-wise.
A previous poster made a valid point regarding my fitness level if I gave up the daily cycling, which certainly keeps my base level fitness OK. The job package would include very subsidised gym membership close to the office, but as with everything it would be a case of finding the time.
M25 is the Devils work, to be avoided at all costs imho. I did 18 months travelling on the Southern section against all the traffic (mornings) but always caught delays in the afternoon / evening unless I left real early or real late ... often didn't leave work until 1900 just to avoid the traffic!
TX.
TX.
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