Alpina - Your experience?
Discussion
I know this is 'M' but I think this is probably the closest thing to them, esp as they're getting turbos!
Anybody had an alpina? They are strangely attractive and I love having something a little special and exclusive.
Came across the Roadster S recently. A model I wasn't really aware of. Very beautiful car but a bit of a rarity and knocking on a decade old now.
I love the big revs of my M3 but the thought of the torque orientated Alpina engine is very appealing.
Anybody had an alpina? They are strangely attractive and I love having something a little special and exclusive.
Came across the Roadster S recently. A model I wasn't really aware of. Very beautiful car but a bit of a rarity and knocking on a decade old now.
I love the big revs of my M3 but the thought of the torque orientated Alpina engine is very appealing.
I can't help but feel both //M and Alpina are beginning to fight over the same ground now, whereas in the past they offered something a bit different from each other. Generally I prefer older BMWs, and hence Alpinas, to the latest models, but there is something very appealing about the latest B3, especially in Touring form
Check out the 2.7 RLE for an even rarer roadster from Buchloe btw. One of 66 I think
They'll be out with the knives for you posting a thread like that in here btw!
Check out the 2.7 RLE for an even rarer roadster from Buchloe btw. One of 66 I think
They'll be out with the knives for you posting a thread like that in here btw!
I think Alpina is a very attractive brand - I love it that they refuse to discount new cars, for example - but I think they're really starting to lag behind competitors; I don't believe the B5 Bi-Turbo offers enough performance compared to the M5.
It's also not hugely impressive to see that they're sometimes down on power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4
It's also not hugely impressive to see that they're sometimes down on power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4
Rick101 said:
From what I've read they push for torque over power.
Certainly would be interesting to drive one, and it's BMw counterpart back to back.
Alpina's 4.4l twin turbo produces 520 lb-ft compared to BMW's 502 lb-ft. I fear BMW has moved into Alpina's backyard in this area and offer more for less with the M5.Certainly would be interesting to drive one, and it's BMw counterpart back to back.
Moreover I think Alpina will need to develop their own DCT ASAP.
iv had a e39 b10 v8 alpine and an e39 M5.
two totally different cars.
the m5 feels like its smaller than it is very nimble for its size and the ride and power delivery are more like a "sports" car than a big saloon.
the alpine feels much softer more like a exec barge with extra umph.
two totally different cars.
the m5 feels like its smaller than it is very nimble for its size and the ride and power delivery are more like a "sports" car than a big saloon.
the alpine feels much softer more like a exec barge with extra umph.
Andy M said:
I think Alpina is a very attractive brand - I love it that they refuse to discount new cars, for example - but I think they're really starting to lag behind competitors; I don't believe the B5 Bi-Turbo offers enough performance compared to the M5.
It's also not hugely impressive to see that they're sometimes down on power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4
Check out the new D3 BT or the new B3 and then see if you think they are lagging behind.It's also not hugely impressive to see that they're sometimes down on power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT0r6xQJU_4
I only have a humble D3 BT from 2011 but the mid range performance is very close to my S54 engined M Roadster.
There are plenty of threads and comments regarding Alpina and 'M' and the conclusion through most of them is; you either 'get' the Alpina ethos or you don't.
I completely agree with the above comments about a recent convergence of products between 'M' and Alpina but I think that's due in part to the common products that nearly all high end sporting cars use - forced induction and electronic suspension and transmission. In years gone by Alpina tuned conventional suspension to their own requirements and designed and built their own engines and transmission components - without the constraints of using BMW products or production lines.
There is still something special about the methodology of Alpina though - the power delivery is less frenetic but still on a par with their 'M' counterparts; the ride is more supple but still firm enough for sporting and progressive driving and the drivetrains arguably more flexible for the requirements of todays motoring.
Don't think I'm all pro-Alpina though; my M635 won't make way for a B9/10/11 E24 and if pushed I would choose an E46 M3 over a B3/B3S but for the larger cars I personally prefer a touch more comfort and flexibility than the 'M' cars offer.
Both 'M' and Alpina are still very special products though but I differentiate between them by asking one question; do you drive the car at 10/10th's a lot of the time or 9/10th's maximum? If it is 10/10th's then probably get the 'M' car; if it is 9/10th's then consider the Alpina equivilant.
There are a number of issues over the years between certain cars and models that are worth knowing though; Alpina have been found to be conservative in their power declarations, from the E34 BiTurbo, the subsequent 4.6 and 4.8 V8 engines, the E36 and E46 straight sixes and the newer forced induction engines, whereas certain 'M' cars in that time have struggled to make their stated power unless in tip-top condition.
Saying that, the whole point of buying an Alpina is the entire package including the fabled suspension so buying a modified one or one without the Alpina bits and pieces is missing the point unless you're willing to put the car right.
Ultimately both sets of cars are special and depending on what size and type of car you are looking for, you might end up looking at a direct choice from each school - personally I wanted a rhd rapid estate, 'M' didn't do this in either E34 or E39 flavour and Alpina did in both ranges.
Alpina have often been found to fill the holes that 'M' miss, like the current 5 series Touring and every 7 series since the seventies, and many, many others in between.
I completely agree with the above comments about a recent convergence of products between 'M' and Alpina but I think that's due in part to the common products that nearly all high end sporting cars use - forced induction and electronic suspension and transmission. In years gone by Alpina tuned conventional suspension to their own requirements and designed and built their own engines and transmission components - without the constraints of using BMW products or production lines.
There is still something special about the methodology of Alpina though - the power delivery is less frenetic but still on a par with their 'M' counterparts; the ride is more supple but still firm enough for sporting and progressive driving and the drivetrains arguably more flexible for the requirements of todays motoring.
Don't think I'm all pro-Alpina though; my M635 won't make way for a B9/10/11 E24 and if pushed I would choose an E46 M3 over a B3/B3S but for the larger cars I personally prefer a touch more comfort and flexibility than the 'M' cars offer.
Both 'M' and Alpina are still very special products though but I differentiate between them by asking one question; do you drive the car at 10/10th's a lot of the time or 9/10th's maximum? If it is 10/10th's then probably get the 'M' car; if it is 9/10th's then consider the Alpina equivilant.
There are a number of issues over the years between certain cars and models that are worth knowing though; Alpina have been found to be conservative in their power declarations, from the E34 BiTurbo, the subsequent 4.6 and 4.8 V8 engines, the E36 and E46 straight sixes and the newer forced induction engines, whereas certain 'M' cars in that time have struggled to make their stated power unless in tip-top condition.
Saying that, the whole point of buying an Alpina is the entire package including the fabled suspension so buying a modified one or one without the Alpina bits and pieces is missing the point unless you're willing to put the car right.
Ultimately both sets of cars are special and depending on what size and type of car you are looking for, you might end up looking at a direct choice from each school - personally I wanted a rhd rapid estate, 'M' didn't do this in either E34 or E39 flavour and Alpina did in both ranges.
Alpina have often been found to fill the holes that 'M' miss, like the current 5 series Touring and every 7 series since the seventies, and many, many others in between.
Edited by E24man on Saturday 8th February 15:44
Did blow a hg though and alpina specific parts can get v expensive.With respect to the OP enquiry on a Roadster S, my opinion is that they dont and cant touch a Z4M. They carry over all the things that are bad about ordinary Z4 such as electric steering and run-flat tyres so the Alpina wont handle as well, it wont be as confortable and then it wont be any where near as fast.
.............................
On the generla topic of Alpina, its only the most recent B3 Bi-turbo that has interested in a long time as it seems to be a true M3 competitor (something which an Alpina 3er hasnt been in a VERY long time) with near equal power, an equivalent gearbox and an LSD. The appeal for the Alpina package for me over the M3/M4 would be the understated Alpina styling and the exclusivity.
.............................
On the generla topic of Alpina, its only the most recent B3 Bi-turbo that has interested in a long time as it seems to be a true M3 competitor (something which an Alpina 3er hasnt been in a VERY long time) with near equal power, an equivalent gearbox and an LSD. The appeal for the Alpina package for me over the M3/M4 would be the understated Alpina styling and the exclusivity.
Johnb850 said:
With respect to the OP enquiry on a Roadster S, my opinion is that they dont and cant touch a Z4M. They carry over all the things that are bad about ordinary Z4 such as electric steering and run-flat tyres so the Alpina wont handle as well, it wont be as confortable and then it wont be any where near as fast.
.............................
On the generla topic of Alpina, its only the most recent B3 Bi-turbo that has interested in a long time as it seems to be a true M3 competitor (something which an Alpina 3er hasnt been in a VERY long time) with near equal power, an equivalent gearbox and an LSD. The appeal for the Alpina package for me over the M3/M4 would be the understated Alpina styling and the exclusivity.
I suspect the new M3 might be a true B3 competitor JB .............................
On the generla topic of Alpina, its only the most recent B3 Bi-turbo that has interested in a long time as it seems to be a true M3 competitor (something which an Alpina 3er hasnt been in a VERY long time) with near equal power, an equivalent gearbox and an LSD. The appeal for the Alpina package for me over the M3/M4 would be the understated Alpina styling and the exclusivity.
You sure about the RFTs btw? I thought Alpina ditched them on the Roadster S. Must try and dig out an old review and see
Edited by Leins on Saturday 8th February 12:15
Johnb850 said:
With respect to the OP enquiry on a Roadster S, my opinion is that they dont and cant touch a Z4M. They carry over all the things that are bad about ordinary Z4 such as electric steering and run-flat tyres so the Alpina wont handle as well
This is wrong - no Alpina's had run-flats around that time - have you ever even driven an Alpina Roadster S? E24man said:
Johnb850 said:
With respect to the OP enquiry on a Roadster S, my opinion is that they dont and cant touch a Z4M. They carry over all the things that are bad about ordinary Z4 such as electric steering and run-flat tyres so the Alpina wont handle as well
This is wrong - no Alpina's had run-flats around that time - have you ever even driven an Alpina Roadster S? ETA Well, they don't at the moment anyway
http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/parts/wheels/...
Alpina said:
Every BMW ALPINA comes with conventional tyres and a Mobility System fitted as standard.
Edited by bigandclever on Saturday 8th February 19:18
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