Employment issues, advice please!!
Discussion
I'm posting this on behalf of a friend and fellow PH regular who wishes to remain anonymous, it's a long one but hopefully covers all bases. Any further questions will be answered by me on his behalf. Your wisdom (and arguments 
) are appreciated 
) are appreciated PHer said:
I have been at the company for just under 3 years, relocating for the role and starting when there was just 5 of us in a room and we didn't even know if the company would be around in 6 months’ time, however it has been a massive success, grown rapidly and now has almost 100 employees.
Over the past year the company has looked at relocating the office. During initial discussions both in company-wide communications and one-to-one meetings with the ops director and then the MD my colleagues and I were given the usual spiel and promised we would be compensated if the relocation was detrimental to us - obviously there would be winners and losers, and the move is for the benefit of the company.
Months later, in November 2013, we were told the move was confirmed however none of the people, myself included, or the concerns raised had been addressed.
On 21st Jan we all received an FAQ from a new ops director stating all employees are expected to make their own arrangements to attend the new office and that additional support is not available, seemingly flying in the face of everything we'd discussed and been promised before.
The relocation for me means an additional 80 miles and approx. 2 hours commuting per day, and as such feels completely unreasonable to me given the increased disruption and expense without support from the company.
I sent an email after the FAQ to my line manager outlining my concerns regarding the extra disruption and expense of the office relocation but received no acknowledgement or response.
On 5th Feb we received verbal communication that my team are expected to work from the new office on 24th Feb. I sent another email reiterating my concerns, the lack of acknowledgement or response to any concerns being raised previously, and the reversal of support we'd previously been promised to my line-manager, his manager and the CTO.
The next day i overhear my line-managers manager discussing my email with another unrelated colleague and states "we'll just get rid of him and use the extra desk space if he doesn't play ball" and then get pulled into a HR meeting with him and the ops director (we have no HR personnel) where they stated they do not believe the office relocation is unreasonable, that it does not constitute a change of my employment contract, that i am expected to work from the new office, that they have given me reasonable notice, that there will be no "compensation" for the extra time/expense as i am "one of the highest paid in the team" and that my role is not being made redundant... in effect stating that I have no choice but to work at the new office at my own expense with no alternative.
I don't feel that gives me any option - they have not responded to my concerns, have done a U-turn on promised support and I feel it’s completely unreasonable for the company to expect me to stomach the extra £20/day expense (£5k/yr net plus time) to commute when I could have had no idea the company would move offices when i relocated to the company and I’ve had a single 2% pay rise in the 3 years.
The company has "gone away to consider their options" and there is another HR meeting arranged for next week. I've said I’ll continue to work from my contracted place of employment at the original office until such time that is no longer possible, at which point i shall work from home until this is resolved.
I fully expect for any "compensation" to be rejected and for them to state I am to work from the new office on 24th or face disciplinary action, which in turn would make me feel I have no choice but to resign as I cannot take the hit on the extra expense and disruption without some support from the company as originally promised.
So, do you have any advice from a legal / HR perspective?
The cynic in me feels this may be a grand scheme by the company to remove the early starters at the company such as myself who relocated for the role and as such could have not planned for a later relocation and who conveniently have share-options that would be surrendered should they resign.
If the company gives me no option but to work from the new office do I actually have a say?
If I resigned effective immediately i believe they would withhold wages to cover the lack of notice period. Is this allowed?
FFS I'm actually sat here now listening to my line-managers manager and an ops lady laughing their tits off about those that are "not going to survive long enough" to make it to the new office and placing mock bets. f
king tts. This is peoples livelyhood they're fking about with 😞
Many thanks!
Cheers guys and girls.Over the past year the company has looked at relocating the office. During initial discussions both in company-wide communications and one-to-one meetings with the ops director and then the MD my colleagues and I were given the usual spiel and promised we would be compensated if the relocation was detrimental to us - obviously there would be winners and losers, and the move is for the benefit of the company.
Months later, in November 2013, we were told the move was confirmed however none of the people, myself included, or the concerns raised had been addressed.
On 21st Jan we all received an FAQ from a new ops director stating all employees are expected to make their own arrangements to attend the new office and that additional support is not available, seemingly flying in the face of everything we'd discussed and been promised before.
The relocation for me means an additional 80 miles and approx. 2 hours commuting per day, and as such feels completely unreasonable to me given the increased disruption and expense without support from the company.
I sent an email after the FAQ to my line manager outlining my concerns regarding the extra disruption and expense of the office relocation but received no acknowledgement or response.
On 5th Feb we received verbal communication that my team are expected to work from the new office on 24th Feb. I sent another email reiterating my concerns, the lack of acknowledgement or response to any concerns being raised previously, and the reversal of support we'd previously been promised to my line-manager, his manager and the CTO.
The next day i overhear my line-managers manager discussing my email with another unrelated colleague and states "we'll just get rid of him and use the extra desk space if he doesn't play ball" and then get pulled into a HR meeting with him and the ops director (we have no HR personnel) where they stated they do not believe the office relocation is unreasonable, that it does not constitute a change of my employment contract, that i am expected to work from the new office, that they have given me reasonable notice, that there will be no "compensation" for the extra time/expense as i am "one of the highest paid in the team" and that my role is not being made redundant... in effect stating that I have no choice but to work at the new office at my own expense with no alternative.
I don't feel that gives me any option - they have not responded to my concerns, have done a U-turn on promised support and I feel it’s completely unreasonable for the company to expect me to stomach the extra £20/day expense (£5k/yr net plus time) to commute when I could have had no idea the company would move offices when i relocated to the company and I’ve had a single 2% pay rise in the 3 years.
The company has "gone away to consider their options" and there is another HR meeting arranged for next week. I've said I’ll continue to work from my contracted place of employment at the original office until such time that is no longer possible, at which point i shall work from home until this is resolved.
I fully expect for any "compensation" to be rejected and for them to state I am to work from the new office on 24th or face disciplinary action, which in turn would make me feel I have no choice but to resign as I cannot take the hit on the extra expense and disruption without some support from the company as originally promised.
So, do you have any advice from a legal / HR perspective?
The cynic in me feels this may be a grand scheme by the company to remove the early starters at the company such as myself who relocated for the role and as such could have not planned for a later relocation and who conveniently have share-options that would be surrendered should they resign.
If the company gives me no option but to work from the new office do I actually have a say?
If I resigned effective immediately i believe they would withhold wages to cover the lack of notice period. Is this allowed?
FFS I'm actually sat here now listening to my line-managers manager and an ops lady laughing their tits off about those that are "not going to survive long enough" to make it to the new office and placing mock bets. f
king tts. This is peoples livelyhood they're fking about with 😞Many thanks!
What does to job involve and could all / most / some be done by homeworking?
This could be a compromise options in allowing "PH Memeber" to work from home 2 / 3 days a week and schedule on-site activities during those times. Web-design could accomidate this, warehouse work not so much.
As a side note, my wife's company moved a similar distance in the wrong direction. They offered a relocation package which involved us buying her a car as she could no longer cycle.
This could be a compromise options in allowing "PH Memeber" to work from home 2 / 3 days a week and schedule on-site activities during those times. Web-design could accomidate this, warehouse work not so much.
As a side note, my wife's company moved a similar distance in the wrong direction. They offered a relocation package which involved us buying her a car as she could no longer cycle.
sorry I don't have anything constructive to add but fk me as stated that sounds a really rubbish situation. Not so much the relocation which may be an unfortunate necessity but more the handling of it and the behaviour of senior staff there - I would question if I really wanted to work there at all if that is what is going on? Especially if I had taken the risk and been part of helping them expand so much
k me as stated that sounds a really rubbish situation. Not so much the relocation which may be an unfortunate necessity but more the handling of it and the behaviour of senior staff there - I would question if I really wanted to work there at all if that is what is going on? Especially if I had taken the risk and been part of helping them expand so muchTo be honest, it doesn't sound like a company i'd want to be working for if that's how they carry on.
Unless you have a mobility clause in yur contract i'd be pushing for a redundancy package and to keep my share options.
Good companies look after valued employees. Employees that feel valued work harder, show more loyalty and are far more likely to go the extra mile when required.
Unless you have a mobility clause in yur contract i'd be pushing for a redundancy package and to keep my share options.
Good companies look after valued employees. Employees that feel valued work harder, show more loyalty and are far more likely to go the extra mile when required.
How wretched. I think companies are allowed to relocate however, without taking a referendum.
I'm intrigued about the the employee however - he's been there since day one and now the company is many times larger, he has lots of management above him and has had effectively pay rise - despite the meteoric rise of the company's fortunes.
Is it possible this person is 'just' a receptionist or similar and therefore their perceived importance is a little over stated?
Sympathies all the same, maybe leave a get a different job?
I'm intrigued about the the employee however - he's been there since day one and now the company is many times larger, he has lots of management above him and has had effectively pay rise - despite the meteoric rise of the company's fortunes.
Is it possible this person is 'just' a receptionist or similar and therefore their perceived importance is a little over stated?
Sympathies all the same, maybe leave a get a different job?
Update:
PHer said:
The role is IT-based and could entirely be done from home.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
Council Baby said:
I'm posting this on behalf of a friend and fellow PH regular who wishes to remain anonymous, it's a long one but hopefully covers all bases. Any further questions will be answered by me on his behalf. Your wisdom (and arguments ) are appreciated
I would be tempted to go in to work wired up. Then work out what, if any, part of it is useable.) are appreciated PHer said:
FFS I'm actually sat here now listening to my line-managers manager and an ops lady laughing their tits off about those that are "not going to survive long enough" to make it to the new office and placing mock bets. fking tts. This is peoples livelyhood they're fking about with
king tts. This is peoples livelyhood they're fking about with http://www.addleshawgoddard.com/view.asp?content_i...
http://www.employmentlawworldview.com/secrets-and-...
There used to be a rule that if the company moved more than 25 miles then if you didn't like it then it was redundancy. I knew of one firm that had an employee that lived 20 miles away and caught the bus into work. She lived to the east of the old location. Problem was the firm moved 23 miles west. It meant two extra buses and over an hour but because it was within 25 miles there was no payoff.
Seek advice from ACAS.
If under 40 then redunancy can be capped at £450 pw and it should like they would make you work your notice.
Good luck
Seek advice from ACAS.
If under 40 then redunancy can be capped at £450 pw and it should like they would make you work your notice.
Good luck
The wording of the contract makes a lot of difference here, nobody can really give and meaningful advice without sight of that, particularly of it has a 'loose' mobility clause.
BTW, don't put great reliance on ACAS, you'd do better finding a solicitor with an employment specialisation and talk to them.
BTW, don't put great reliance on ACAS, you'd do better finding a solicitor with an employment specialisation and talk to them.
Council Baby said:
Update:
That mobility clause is key.PHer said:
The role is IT-based and could entirely be done from home.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
the even more powerfully built than the Op PHers running the shop think mobility clause+ economic state + lack of a proper HR manager means they are in the right
Is the current location being disposed of / changed substantailly in it's use ?
if the reolcation stuff is not explicitly in writing ( you have saved and forwarded and printed any emails about his haven;t you - to take account of spite based access issue or 'accidiential' loss of parts of the files )
Is the current location being disposed of / changed substantailly in it's use ?
if the reolcation stuff is not explicitly in writing ( you have saved and forwarded and printed any emails about his haven;t you - to take account of spite based access issue or 'accidiential' loss of parts of the files )
More details people:
PHer said:
The current office location is being closed entirely with all business activities being relocated to the new office. It will no longer be possible to work from the old office after the move.
My contract states:
Statement of main terms of employment:
Place of work:
"You will normally be required to work from xxx, or such other address as agreed between you and the Company."
Employee handbook states:
Mobility:
Although you are usually employed at a particular site, it is a condition of your employment that you are prepared, whenever applicable, to travel to other company locations, customers or suppliers sites as required by your line manager. This mobility is essential to the smooth running of our business."
Offer letter states:
"I am please to confirm to you the offer of the position of xxx with xxx based out of our xxx office."
The FAQ received on 21st Jan outlining the move, my grievances raised on 24th Jan and 5th Feb are the only real things documented regarding the move.
My contract states:
Statement of main terms of employment:
Place of work:
"You will normally be required to work from xxx, or such other address as agreed between you and the Company."
Employee handbook states:
Mobility:
Although you are usually employed at a particular site, it is a condition of your employment that you are prepared, whenever applicable, to travel to other company locations, customers or suppliers sites as required by your line manager. This mobility is essential to the smooth running of our business."
Offer letter states:
"I am please to confirm to you the offer of the position of xxx with xxx based out of our xxx office."
The FAQ received on 21st Jan outlining the move, my grievances raised on 24th Jan and 5th Feb are the only real things documented regarding the move.
Council Baby said:
Update:
##If you don't want to move they should give you a redundancy package. My mate, 'went', and found a new job, and then because it was within 3 months of moving, got his redundancy package. PHer said:
The role is IT-based and could entirely be done from home.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
My contract states my primary location of work as the current office location with occasional travel to other company sites as required. There is a loose 1-line mobility clause (i don't have it handy to quote) but no mention of distance or location.
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