Self Assessment Farce
Discussion
Like many I have been requested to complete a self assessment return due to the Child Benefit restrictions that have now come into force.
I'm PAYE so had never used the HMRC site before and proceeded to try and register. Twenty minutes later I had a User Id but was surprised to find I could not complete the self assessment as the service was not available.
Found the link to activate the self assessment service but was asked for another Id (UTR). Couple of contractors next to me advised a UTR may be posted after registering so I waited a couple of weeks.
Nothing arrived so I logged onto the site again and found a somewhat hidden link to request access to the self assessment service. Completed the form clicked submit and was told I would receive a UTR in the post in 6 to 8 weeks!!
Fast forward 4 weeks and I now finally received my UTR. The letter actually calls the UTR 'Our Reference' but has a paragraph below stating that 'Our Reference' is actually the code I need. So I logged on to the site entered my UTR or 'Our Reference' and have been informed I now need to wait another 7 days for an activation code!!
What a load of b
ks!
I'm PAYE so had never used the HMRC site before and proceeded to try and register. Twenty minutes later I had a User Id but was surprised to find I could not complete the self assessment as the service was not available.
Found the link to activate the self assessment service but was asked for another Id (UTR). Couple of contractors next to me advised a UTR may be posted after registering so I waited a couple of weeks.
Nothing arrived so I logged onto the site again and found a somewhat hidden link to request access to the self assessment service. Completed the form clicked submit and was told I would receive a UTR in the post in 6 to 8 weeks!!
Fast forward 4 weeks and I now finally received my UTR. The letter actually calls the UTR 'Our Reference' but has a paragraph below stating that 'Our Reference' is actually the code I need. So I logged on to the site entered my UTR or 'Our Reference' and have been informed I now need to wait another 7 days for an activation code!!
What a load of b
ks!Why didn't you do it in June?
For security reasons it does take time to get all the codes and references sorted. Once you are through this process, the system isn't too bad.
My view is that, if a person is a higher rate taxpayer then they should be completing self assessment anyway as it is highly likely that their tax affairs are not 100% correct UNLESS they ONLY have PAYE income and they are 100% satisfied that the PAYE is being administered correctly (which it often isn't).
For security reasons it does take time to get all the codes and references sorted. Once you are through this process, the system isn't too bad.
My view is that, if a person is a higher rate taxpayer then they should be completing self assessment anyway as it is highly likely that their tax affairs are not 100% correct UNLESS they ONLY have PAYE income and they are 100% satisfied that the PAYE is being administered correctly (which it often isn't).
russ_a said:
Like many I have been requested to complete a self assessment return due to the Child Benefit restrictions that have now come into force.
I'm PAYE so had never used the HMRC site before and proceeded to try and register. Twenty minutes later I had a User Id but was surprised to find I could not complete the self assessment as the service was not available.
Found the link to activate the self assessment service but was asked for another Id (UTR). Couple of contractors next to me advised a UTR may be posted after registering so I waited a couple of weeks.
Nothing arrived so I logged onto the site again and found a somewhat hidden link to request access to the self assessment service. Completed the form clicked submit and was told I would receive a UTR in the post in 6 to 8 weeks!!
Fast forward 4 weeks and I now finally received my UTR. The letter actually calls the UTR 'Our Reference' but has a paragraph below stating that 'Our Reference' is actually the code I need. So I logged on to the site entered my UTR or 'Our Reference' and have been informed I now need to wait another 7 days for an activation code!!
What a load of bks!
To add to your angst, you will also have a £100 penalty to add to your bill!! I'm PAYE so had never used the HMRC site before and proceeded to try and register. Twenty minutes later I had a User Id but was surprised to find I could not complete the self assessment as the service was not available.
Found the link to activate the self assessment service but was asked for another Id (UTR). Couple of contractors next to me advised a UTR may be posted after registering so I waited a couple of weeks.
Nothing arrived so I logged onto the site again and found a somewhat hidden link to request access to the self assessment service. Completed the form clicked submit and was told I would receive a UTR in the post in 6 to 8 weeks!!
Fast forward 4 weeks and I now finally received my UTR. The letter actually calls the UTR 'Our Reference' but has a paragraph below stating that 'Our Reference' is actually the code I need. So I logged on to the site entered my UTR or 'Our Reference' and have been informed I now need to wait another 7 days for an activation code!!
What a load of b
ks!David
Eric Mc said:
Why didn't you do it in June?
For security reasons it does take time to get all the codes and references sorted. Once you are through this process, the system isn't too bad.
My view is that, if a person is a higher rate taxpayer then they should be completing self assessment anyway as it is highly likely that their tax affairs are not 100% correct UNLESS they ONLY have PAYE income and they are 100% satisfied that the PAYE is being administered correctly (which it often isn't).
Agree.For security reasons it does take time to get all the codes and references sorted. Once you are through this process, the system isn't too bad.
My view is that, if a person is a higher rate taxpayer then they should be completing self assessment anyway as it is highly likely that their tax affairs are not 100% correct UNLESS they ONLY have PAYE income and they are 100% satisfied that the PAYE is being administered correctly (which it often isn't).
Why on earth isn't it compulsory for all higher rate taxpayers to fill in a self assessment? With all the talk of tax evasion/avoidance, quite how the government leaves this massive loophole open is incredible.
OP - I really hope you have never, EVER received a penny of bank interest, share dividends or property income whilst you have not been doing a self assessment....?
russ_a said:
No £100 fine as the last letter received said I had another 3 months from the date of the letter.
That's interesting - many people would have been caught like you and I was wondering how they were going to stop mass complaints.numtumfutunch said:
My experience was a lot different
Being disorganised I looked at HMRC website in the last week of January and to my horror realised I needed an activation code through the post
I registered and got my code in 3 working days
You must have previously registered and been sent your UTR. Being disorganised I looked at HMRC website in the last week of January and to my horror realised I needed an activation code through the post
I registered and got my code in 3 working days
I was the same - registered years ago but never used the system, always filled out the paper form (my tax affairs are very simple). This year they told me to do it online so I got a bit of a fright when I sat doen to do it and found I needed the activation code.
oyster said:
Why on earth isn't it compulsory for all higher rate taxpayers to fill in a self assessment? With all the talk of tax evasion/avoidance, quite how the government leaves this massive loophole open is incredible.
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).sidicks said:
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).
The only thing on mine is private medical cover is always a bit higher than in my tax code as that's based on the previous year's premium. Had to pay £50 this year.All investments are owned by my wife, who doesn't work.
I did start the process back in December it's now Feb and I'm still waiting for the next activation code.
HMRC state on their website if the codes are not received in time there is no fine:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/online/excuse-missed-deadli...
HMRC state on their website if the codes are not received in time there is no fine:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/online/excuse-missed-deadli...
sidicks said:
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).
My savings account has 85p in it. It earned no interest last year.The rest of the money is in two ISAs (one of each type) and a tax exempt NSI account. My PAYE is accurate (easy job to check armed with the P60 and I've done that the last few years after spending a while with the wrong tax code) and I do not fill in a tax return.
While a higher rate taxpayer, I certainly do not earn enough to use my entire ISA allowance.
NPI said:
The only thing on mine is private medical cover is always a bit higher than in my tax code as that's based on the previous year's premium. Had to pay £50 this year.
All investments are owned by my wife, who doesn't work.
What about tax relief claims?All investments are owned by my wife, who doesn't work.
If you donate to charities using gift aid or deeds of covenant or if you pay into a personal pension , you may be missing out on additional Higher Rate tax relief.
You can circumvent Self Assessment and make these claims in other ways, but I still think doing an SA tax return is actually a good idea and a useful way of a taxpayer carrying out an annual "health check" on their tax affairs.
It also puts the taxpayer in charge of their own tax affairs rather than assuming that everybody else (employers, pension providers, banks, the HMRC etc) are doing their tax work correctly. They don't always - especially when dealing with higher rate taxpayers.
sidicks said:
oyster said:
Why on earth isn't it compulsory for all higher rate taxpayers to fill in a self assessment? With all the talk of tax evasion/avoidance, quite how the government leaves this massive loophole open is incredible.
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).With interest rates as they are, most people ( if they have savings) are either using tax efficient savings methods or paying off capital / offset on properties.
Upthejunction said:
Really?
With interest rates as they are, most people ( if they have savings) are either using tax efficient savings methods or paying off capital / offset on properties.
Not at all. Lots of people have sizeable amounts in "normal" savings accounts for all sorts of reasons.With interest rates as they are, most people ( if they have savings) are either using tax efficient savings methods or paying off capital / offset on properties.
Some because they are lazy and don't try to be tax efficient.
Others because they don't want their cash tied up and inaccessible for large parts of the year - for genuine reasons usually.
Also, lots of people have money in stocks and shares which are subject to extra tax if the individual is a Higher Rate taxpayer. The additional tax due on those dividends MUST be accounted for under the SA system.
I know that there are ISA based products that can be used as a "wrapper" for stocks and share investments but not that many people make use of them as they can be quite restrictive.
In addition to the Higher Rate taxpayers, increasingly we are seeing people with complex work arrangements - people who are working two or three part time employments, or a combination of part time employment and some self employment, or all of the above plus a state or work related pension.
People in these situations (I have quite a few on my books) may have complex and messy tax affairs without even being in the Higher Rate tax brackets. And invariably, the PAYE system struggles to keep tabs on a person in this type of situation.
Self Assessment is by far the best method around for a person like that to keep on top of things and NOT overpay or underpay tax.
I was listening to the radio yesterday and a Chartered Accountant said that 43% of all people who pay tax under the PAYE system pay the wrong tax.
Upthejunction said:
sidicks said:
oyster said:
Why on earth isn't it compulsory for all higher rate taxpayers to fill in a self assessment? With all the talk of tax evasion/avoidance, quite how the government leaves this massive loophole open is incredible.
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).With interest rates as they are, most people ( if they have savings) are either using tax efficient savings methods or paying off capital / offset on properties.
My concern is how many of those higher rate taxpayers are paying 32.5% on dividends versus 10%.
oyster said:
Upthejunction said:
sidicks said:
oyster said:
Why on earth isn't it compulsory for all higher rate taxpayers to fill in a self assessment? With all the talk of tax evasion/avoidance, quite how the government leaves this massive loophole open is incredible.
Surely it effectively is compulsory. It is YOUR responsibility to pay the right tax. For higher rate taxpayers that inevitably means that extra tax is due (on savings interest).With interest rates as they are, most people ( if they have savings) are either using tax efficient savings methods or paying off capital / offset on properties.
My concern is how many of those higher rate taxpayers are paying 32.5% on dividends versus 10%.
Eric Mc said:
NPI said:
The only thing on mine is private medical cover is always a bit higher than in my tax code as that's based on the previous year's premium. Had to pay £50 this year.
All investments are owned by my wife, who doesn't work.
What about tax relief claims?All investments are owned by my wife, who doesn't work.
If you donate to charities using gift aid or deeds of covenant or if you pay into a personal pension , you may be missing out on additional Higher Rate tax relief.
NPI said:
They're good points but I don't normally give to charity and have a non-contributory pension scheme.
I wasn't referring to your circumstances specifically. There are lots of people who give to charity and there are lots of people paying into pension schemes. There are lots of people who pay Higher Rate Tax and there are lots of people paying too much or too little tax. There are lots of people with multiple sources of income.Therefore, there are lots of people who would benefit from biting the bullet and signing up for Self Assessment.
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