Throw us drivers a frickin bone here!!!
Discussion
OK, so i'm putting this here instead of GG as i'm after a cyclists response other than some "kill all none drivers" replies.
Interesting experience tonight.
On my way to the local Sainsburys, the entrance of which means turning right on a mini roundabout. Road splits into two lanes just prior to the roundabout - one lane for left turn and straight on, the other to turn right.
Couple of cars in front veered into the right hand lane and i saw a chap on a bike. High viz vest although to be fair, i can't remember if there was a tail light fitted. Lets assume that there was in the interests of fairness.
Obviously they were passing him as they wanted to continue on in the left hand lane. I accelerated to go past the cyclist, allowing a reasonable amount of distance between us, figuring that it would be best to pass him prior to the roundabout / split in lanes.
It was only as i got my passenger window alongside the cyclist that i realised that we were a lot close than i had previously thought. I then realised that they had intended to turn right and moved across as i had drawn alongside.
This all happened within about 20 yards and as i stopped at the roundabout, i realised (over the sound of the radio) that there was a loud noise - looking in my rear view mirror i realised it was the cyclist shouting and ranting at me through the rear hatch - he was bending over the handlebars to make his point.
This i guess is all setup and my point is this.
February evening about 5:30. Pitch black. Cyclist with high viz jacket on. Why would you assume that i can see you raising your arm on the right to indicate a right turn when you are wearing a black / dark blue jacket underneath? How is a driver meant to see that?
We all have a responsibility for our own safety on the roads and as a cyclist (albeit a sporadic one) i appreciate the maxim that you must be seen at all times.
My initial thought as i pulled into Sainsburys car park was that i hope he's followed me so i can sort this out asap. Not to get into any sort of fisticuffs but just to basically say "give me a chance you prat".
Am i being a typical bad driver or should am i right in expecting someone to have a bit more sense whilst riding in the dark?
Thoughts please.
Interesting experience tonight.
On my way to the local Sainsburys, the entrance of which means turning right on a mini roundabout. Road splits into two lanes just prior to the roundabout - one lane for left turn and straight on, the other to turn right.
Couple of cars in front veered into the right hand lane and i saw a chap on a bike. High viz vest although to be fair, i can't remember if there was a tail light fitted. Lets assume that there was in the interests of fairness.
Obviously they were passing him as they wanted to continue on in the left hand lane. I accelerated to go past the cyclist, allowing a reasonable amount of distance between us, figuring that it would be best to pass him prior to the roundabout / split in lanes.
It was only as i got my passenger window alongside the cyclist that i realised that we were a lot close than i had previously thought. I then realised that they had intended to turn right and moved across as i had drawn alongside.
This all happened within about 20 yards and as i stopped at the roundabout, i realised (over the sound of the radio) that there was a loud noise - looking in my rear view mirror i realised it was the cyclist shouting and ranting at me through the rear hatch - he was bending over the handlebars to make his point.
This i guess is all setup and my point is this.
February evening about 5:30. Pitch black. Cyclist with high viz jacket on. Why would you assume that i can see you raising your arm on the right to indicate a right turn when you are wearing a black / dark blue jacket underneath? How is a driver meant to see that?
We all have a responsibility for our own safety on the roads and as a cyclist (albeit a sporadic one) i appreciate the maxim that you must be seen at all times.
My initial thought as i pulled into Sainsburys car park was that i hope he's followed me so i can sort this out asap. Not to get into any sort of fisticuffs but just to basically say "give me a chance you prat".
Am i being a typical bad driver or should am i right in expecting someone to have a bit more sense whilst riding in the dark?
Thoughts please.
One incident, two totally different views.
You didn't see him indicating right, so assumed he was going straight on and acted accordingly.
He saw someone overtake when he's indicating (happens all the sodding time to me) and potentially ignore him completely and try and run him over as he indicated and moved out.
You didn't see him indicating right, so assumed he was going straight on and acted accordingly.
He saw someone overtake when he's indicating (happens all the sodding time to me) and potentially ignore him completely and try and run him over as he indicated and moved out.
Wasn't there, so. I'm neutral.
Say it was a micra dawdling, and they Moved without indicating - it'd be your fault for not paying attebtion. On that basis, you probably made an error in observation.
However, as a cyclist, i have limited sympathy to the "wear lots of balck" brigade. I understand that my indicators are my sleeves and hands, which is why i wear tops and gloves with retro reflective crap on. Makes it easier for the "only half looked" brigade to not be crap for once.
Conclusion: 50-50, as long as your description of a hgh viz vest is in fact a tabbard over black top
Say it was a micra dawdling, and they Moved without indicating - it'd be your fault for not paying attebtion. On that basis, you probably made an error in observation.
However, as a cyclist, i have limited sympathy to the "wear lots of balck" brigade. I understand that my indicators are my sleeves and hands, which is why i wear tops and gloves with retro reflective crap on. Makes it easier for the "only half looked" brigade to not be crap for once.
Conclusion: 50-50, as long as your description of a hgh viz vest is in fact a tabbard over black top
Fair enough in your case, but the Highway Code has previously suggested that cyclists should stay on the left even if they are turning right!!
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48...
Granted, THC is not the law, but if the guy's old copy of THC gave him nonsense advice, I can see why he thinks he is in the right.
Myself - ride as you would drive. Make the lane your own.
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=48...
Granted, THC is not the law, but if the guy's old copy of THC gave him nonsense advice, I can see why he thinks he is in the right.
Myself - ride as you would drive. Make the lane your own.
Thank you for your replies
I guess i was right in posting here - 2 rational responses to the comments!
Yes there are two sides to every story and i'm sure he was at home regaling the tale of the tit in the Audi (#stereotype) who tried to run him over. Probably rightly so in his eyes.
All i can say is if he was in a Micra, i would have breaked and allowed them in front - probably whilst either beeping the horn or just glowering at the driver, all dependant on if i miss the centre of the wheel to beep the horn. (It happens in the heat of the moment.
All i can say is that a) i did see them and try to give the rider as much room / space / time as possible and b) they only ended up in close proximity when i was 1/3rd of the way past them.
My point i guess is that if you are using an arm / leg / whatever to indicate a change of lane or direction, it might be an idea to make said appendage visible. Indicators on motor vehicles are visible for a reason. To all intents and purposes, in the dark, he merely veered into my lane and then made like a loon on my rear bumper.
And yes, i did look up the word tabbard prior to replying...
I guess i was right in posting here - 2 rational responses to the comments!
Yes there are two sides to every story and i'm sure he was at home regaling the tale of the tit in the Audi (#stereotype) who tried to run him over. Probably rightly so in his eyes.
All i can say is if he was in a Micra, i would have breaked and allowed them in front - probably whilst either beeping the horn or just glowering at the driver, all dependant on if i miss the centre of the wheel to beep the horn. (It happens in the heat of the moment.
All i can say is that a) i did see them and try to give the rider as much room / space / time as possible and b) they only ended up in close proximity when i was 1/3rd of the way past them.
My point i guess is that if you are using an arm / leg / whatever to indicate a change of lane or direction, it might be an idea to make said appendage visible. Indicators on motor vehicles are visible for a reason. To all intents and purposes, in the dark, he merely veered into my lane and then made like a loon on my rear bumper.
And yes, i did look up the word tabbard prior to replying...
Aerate said:
Myself - ride as you would drive. Make the lane your own.
THAT...........................^^^lenny007 said:
I accelerated to go past the cyclist, allowing a reasonable amount of distance between us, figuring that it would be best to pass him prior to the roundabout / split in lanes.
Before I give you my thought on this I would just like to let you know I'm a professional driver who has earned a living all my life driving everything from cars to vans to trucks all the way up to STGO Cat 2, fuel tankers and explosives I have a Hazchem license and held a CPC operators licence.My thoughts and this is how I both a motorist and a cyclist view the situation
Would you have made that same manoeuvre if instead of a bike it was a car in the exact same placing on the road going at the exact same speed as the bike. I doubt very much if you would. You saw the bike but decided you should pass it before the roundabout, so you went for it. You were lucky nobody was hurt...this time. Treat cyclists as you would treat cars, as you would like to be treated when you're out cycling, give them space, they may have to swerve for potholes and if you are so close it could be a disaster, something you would have to live with for the rest of your life, something you would think about every day when you waken up in the morning, when you go to bed every night.
I could write a book of the close encounters I've had in the last 12 months of cycling and of all the close calls I have never yet had an apology from a driver. It's high time the laws were reviewed and changes made.
lenny007 said:
breaked
I did have an open mind up until that point 
Overtaking narrow cyclists before a junction just because you can is in the top 3 biggest hazards out there for us lot. Yes, he could have been primary sooner and better lit BUT always remember, that could have been a kid.
Hey, we're all motorists, some of us cycle too, Most of us who do will try to see things from both perspectives. I appreciate some of us take more of a self preservation attitude than others whilst cycling but it is surprising how much ambient light there is when you are cycling on a road with cars, street lights, shops nearby etc. So you can cycle along without lights because that light is enough for you to see, and also thinking that because you can see all your surroundings, its the same for the driver too. Fundamentally, its the difference between being able to see, and being seen.
47p2 said:
Aerate said:
Myself - ride as you would drive. Make the lane your own.
THAT...........................^^^lenny007 said:
I accelerated to go past the cyclist, allowing a reasonable amount of distance between us, figuring that it would be best to pass him prior to the roundabout / split in lanes.
Before I give you my thought on this I would just like to let you know I'm a professional driver who has earned a living all my life driving everything from cars to vans to trucks all the way up to STGO Cat 2, fuel tankers and explosives I have a Hazchem license and held a CPC operators licence.My thoughts and this is how I both a motorist and a cyclist view the situation
Would you have made that same manoeuvre if instead of a bike it was a car in the exact same placing on the road going at the exact same speed as the bike. I doubt very much if you would. You saw the bike but decided you should pass it before the roundabout, so you went for it. You were lucky nobody was hurt...this time. Treat cyclists as you would treat cars, as you would like to be treated when you're out cycling, give them space, they may have to swerve for potholes and if you are so close it could be a disaster, something you would have to live with for the rest of your life, something you would think about every day when you waken up in the morning, when you go to bed every night.
I could write a book of the close encounters I've had in the last 12 months of cycling and of all the close calls I have never yet had an apology from a driver. It's high time the laws were reviewed and changes made.
lenny007 said:
February evening about 5:30. Pitch black. Cyclist with high viz jacket on. Why would you assume that i can see you raising your arm on the right to indicate a right turn when you are wearing a black / dark blue jacket underneath? How is a driver meant to see that?
I think it's your fault TBH.He/she's indicating right, if you'd hung back instead of rushing to overtake prior to the roundabout, this wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately, it's you who needs to give others a chance.
I maneuver early on my bike to take control of the lane. If a car is too close that I think moving to the right is unsafe I dont pull out. The cyclist can never assume he has been seen and should ride with that in mind. I can only assume he did not check over his shoulder as it sounds like you were right on top of him or pulled out anyway to prove a point. You will never know whether he signaled or not so critique your part of the accident and move on..
To be honest bikes are bloody hard to spot in poor weather so everyone needs to be a bit more cautious.
To be honest bikes are bloody hard to spot in poor weather so everyone needs to be a bit more cautious.
I'm sorry, but the fact that the cyclist raised his arm to indicate right doesn't automatically give him right of way!?
It's like those car driving peeps who indicate and then start changing lanes immediately, without even checking their side mirrors if I happen to be level or just behind them!
It's like those car driving peeps who indicate and then start changing lanes immediately, without even checking their side mirrors if I happen to be level or just behind them!
The road is presumably lit, you presumably have headlights, and the road is probably a 30. The cyclist probably looked over his shoulder or communicated positioning before signalling, although of course he may have done neither.
It's quite possible that circumstances conspired to mean there was nothing you could have done better, or he got angry over nothing, but I'd guess chances are you could have anticipated that he was going to move out.
It's quite possible that circumstances conspired to mean there was nothing you could have done better, or he got angry over nothing, but I'd guess chances are you could have anticipated that he was going to move out.
lenny007 said:
It was only as i got my passenger window alongside the cyclist that i realised that we were a lot close than i had previously thought.
Apologies for singling out this part of your post, but this happens to me so often when I am on the bike I think it needs to be looked at. I'm not saying I am pedalling along everywhere at 25 mph, but if the bike was doing 15 and you were doing 25, you still don't have a lot of speed to pass something. And if I am being completely fair, I think when I have been driving it may have caught me out once or twice in the past, I now don't do it unless I am sure I can get by without causing the bike or oncoming traffic any problems.The cyclist probably needs to check his own behaviour, as someone else has said just because you signal it doesn't mean you can automatically pull out and assume everyone else has seen your signal and will make space for you.
when i drive my car i drive with the following in mind:
anticipate
anticipate
anitcipate
when i ride my bike on the road i ride with the following in mind:
invisible
invisible
invisible
i'm not going to comment on the specific circumstances as it's done now. what matters is what you and the cyclist have learned from it and what you would do differently given the same situation again
anticipate
anticipate
anitcipate
when i ride my bike on the road i ride with the following in mind:
invisible
invisible
invisible
i'm not going to comment on the specific circumstances as it's done now. what matters is what you and the cyclist have learned from it and what you would do differently given the same situation again
Short of people actually driving into me - the things that upset me most when I'm cycling are people who overtake me and immediatly turn left across me, overtake and immediatly brake in front of me, overtake whilst I'm indicating right or pointlessly overtake when I'm keeping up with the flow of motorised traffic.
Similarily positioning and signalling on approach to a roundabout when I'm cycling and intend to take an exit other than the 1st is always a fine line between avoiding behaving like the obnoxious militant cyclist who winds me up whilst I'm driving by deliberatly positioning himself to wind people up just because he can - and making myself safe.
I'm concious that people need to see hand signals and have a pair of hi-viz gloves to assist in this, but I'm also concious that I'm in the minority by doing so and of course there's absolutely no requirement to have them. When I'm driving at night in a well lit urban environment with slow moving traffic I have no problem seeing cyclists make hand signals with no hi viz - likewise it's pretty obvious when someone is positioning or observing to turn right even if their signalling is sloppy.
Maybe this cyclist was particularly slow or the traffic in this supermarket campus was unusually free flowing - but when I'm cycling in that sort of environment I'm usually maintaining a sufficient pace that I'm not impeding any motorised traffic and would be surprised if people felt the need to overtake me there.
You don't have to overtake anyone, when you choose to do so it's your responsibility to do so safely and without other road users to fear for their safety - the onus is on you to "give them a chance" or "throw them a frickin bone" not the other way round.
It's very possible that this guy was just a knob - but his reaction implies that even if he was your overtake was badly planned or executed.
Similarily positioning and signalling on approach to a roundabout when I'm cycling and intend to take an exit other than the 1st is always a fine line between avoiding behaving like the obnoxious militant cyclist who winds me up whilst I'm driving by deliberatly positioning himself to wind people up just because he can - and making myself safe.
I'm concious that people need to see hand signals and have a pair of hi-viz gloves to assist in this, but I'm also concious that I'm in the minority by doing so and of course there's absolutely no requirement to have them. When I'm driving at night in a well lit urban environment with slow moving traffic I have no problem seeing cyclists make hand signals with no hi viz - likewise it's pretty obvious when someone is positioning or observing to turn right even if their signalling is sloppy.
Maybe this cyclist was particularly slow or the traffic in this supermarket campus was unusually free flowing - but when I'm cycling in that sort of environment I'm usually maintaining a sufficient pace that I'm not impeding any motorised traffic and would be surprised if people felt the need to overtake me there.
You don't have to overtake anyone, when you choose to do so it's your responsibility to do so safely and without other road users to fear for their safety - the onus is on you to "give them a chance" or "throw them a frickin bone" not the other way round.
It's very possible that this guy was just a knob - but his reaction implies that even if he was your overtake was badly planned or executed.
It does sound like a typical case of a driver treating a bike as a cue to overtake when it'd have been better to hand back.
Still, nice one on coming in here and seeing what you could learn from another perspective.
Had two occasions this morning where if I hadn't had my wits about me, I'd have been in an ambulance . Acting as if you are invisible is a good strategy, albeit once that requires considerable humility. Very hard not to get wound up sometimes. The Micra driver that drew alongside me at 50kph, and flashed to let the numpty in an Audi pull out, then braked so he did pull out on my was a particular joy. Not fun in sleet.
Still, nice one on coming in here and seeing what you could learn from another perspective.
Had two occasions this morning where if I hadn't had my wits about me, I'd have been in an ambulance . Acting as if you are invisible is a good strategy, albeit once that requires considerable humility. Very hard not to get wound up sometimes. The Micra driver that drew alongside me at 50kph, and flashed to let the numpty in an Audi pull out, then braked so he did pull out on my was a particular joy. Not fun in sleet.
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