3000M running lean
Discussion
Hi I have a problem with my 3000M in that it is running very lean. As soon as the choke opens it cuts out unless I rev it, and when cruising at a steady speed it judders very badly. I tried adjusting it but I still can't get it to idle. I have checked for air leaks checked the float levels and striped and cleaned the carb as best I can and it seems clean but I know the carbs a prone to dirt collecting in them. Is there anything that I am missing that I should try, or should I just give up on this carb and either get it rebuilt or buy a new one?
natureboy8891 said:
Hi I have a problem with my 3000M in that it is running very lean. As soon as the choke opens it cuts out unless I rev it, and when cruising at a steady speed it judders very badly. I tried adjusting it but I still can't get it to idle. I have checked for air leaks checked the float levels and striped and cleaned the carb as best I can and it seems clean but I know the carbs a prone to dirt collecting in them. Is there anything that I am missing that I should try, or should I just give up on this carb and either get it rebuilt or buy a new one?
For what its worth well worth investing an hour at a good old fashioned rolling road tuners now I have found a good one its well worth the cost as they are doing these all day every day and over the years have seen every problem or combination of problems and how to solve.I guess apart from my advice you will get lots of varying answers not that they wont be good ones but IMOP this is the answer
Andrew
my guess will be that you either have a blocked jet or aa little water in the carb.
The very easy try, will be to add some carburettor alcohol, the better option will be to remove, clean and inspect the carburettor. And do that in advance of eventually going to an workshop with a rolling road, else the will potentially do the same.
The very easy try, will be to add some carburettor alcohol, the better option will be to remove, clean and inspect the carburettor. And do that in advance of eventually going to an workshop with a rolling road, else the will potentially do the same.
prideaux said:
For what its worth well worth investing an hour at a good old fashioned rolling road tuners now I have found a good one its well worth the cost as they are doing these all day every day and over the years have seen every problem or combination of problems and how to solve.
I guess apart from my advice you will get lots of varying answers not that they wont be good ones but IMOP this is the answer
Andrew
I had planned to do this once I managed to get the car to idle but as you say they may know the problem(s) with the car.I guess apart from my advice you will get lots of varying answers not that they wont be good ones but IMOP this is the answer
Andrew
madsvlund said:
my guess will be that you either have a blocked jet or aa little water in the carb.
The very easy try, will be to add some carburettor alcohol, the better option will be to remove, clean and inspect the carburettor. And do that in advance of eventually going to an workshop with a rolling road, else the will potentially do the same.
I have striped the carb twice now (the first time the carb was so bad the idle jets were blocked completely) and cleaned it I know there is no water in it and as far as I could see there is no dirt but I can only check where I can see.The very easy try, will be to add some carburettor alcohol, the better option will be to remove, clean and inspect the carburettor. And do that in advance of eventually going to an workshop with a rolling road, else the will potentially do the same.
I would also add that I have adjusted the tappets and the timing as they were both out.
Sounds like its the Rolling road and a good diagnostic guy make sure he has a very dirty set of overalls lots of empty mugs of strong tea lying around and looks like he used to work on steam engines at one time then you will know he is the right man for the job 
It was not until I had issues with the 3000s and asked Bill and Mat who re built the Tuscan and have been building cars for 60 years between them and they gave me the same advice and they always take there cars there to get them set up properly I realised we can mess around for days and days and maybe sort of get it right but do you really want sort of.
Use them Gems in back of the way places we have or we will loose them we cant plug a computer in like the High st Garages do
A
It was not until I had issues with the 3000s and asked Bill and Mat who re built the Tuscan and have been building cars for 60 years between them and they gave me the same advice and they always take there cars there to get them set up properly I realised we can mess around for days and days and maybe sort of get it right but do you really want sort of.
Use them Gems in back of the way places we have or we will loose them we cant plug a computer in like the High st Garages do
A
I do not see a point in putting a non performing engine/car on a rolling road (it will prove that the engine is not performing, which you already knew..........)
Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
Edited by bluezeeland on Saturday 15th February 19:34
prideaux said:
Sounds like its the Rolling road and a good diagnostic guy make sure he has a very dirty set of overalls lots of empty mugs of strong tea lying around and looks like he used to work on steam engines at one time then you will know he is the right man for the job
It was not until I had issues with the 3000s and asked Bill and Mat who re built the Tuscan and have been building cars for 60 years between them and they gave me the same advice and they always take there cars there to get them set up properly I realised we can mess around for days and days and maybe sort of get it right but do you really want sort of.
Use them Gems in back of the way places we have or we will loose them we cant plug a computer in like the High st Garages do
A
Well my boss is a good diagnostic guy and he seems to think its the carb but as I have cleaned it he doesn't know what else to do.It was not until I had issues with the 3000s and asked Bill and Mat who re built the Tuscan and have been building cars for 60 years between them and they gave me the same advice and they always take there cars there to get them set up properly I realised we can mess around for days and days and maybe sort of get it right but do you really want sort of.
Use them Gems in back of the way places we have or we will loose them we cant plug a computer in like the High st Garages do
A
bluezeeland said:
I do not see a point in putting a non performing engine/car on a rolling road (it will prove that the engine is not performing, which you already knew..........)
Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
How do I test the vacuum advance?Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
Edited by bluezeeland on Saturday 15th February 19:34
I unscrewed everything I could on the carb cleaned it in the solvent tanks at work and blew threw every port I could on the carb so that should include the fuel galleries.
Do you have a link to the red-line kit you mention Google just throws up a US site.
Thanks everyone for the help so far it is appreciated.
bluezeeland said:
I do not see a point in putting a non performing engine/car on a rolling road (it will prove that the engine is not performing, which you already knew..........)
Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
As I said you will get lots of suggestions and even Advice such as no need for a Rolling road rather than someone who does this for a living all the time obviously some Exert! people like Frank are happy to do there own set up and that's fine however road or track race rally or anything that starts makes noise smells bad and uses petrol benefits from the expertise that a good rolling road tuner can give you though not planning on taking the petrol strimmer over to him Prudence and methodical working requires the 'spark' side of things to be known and working correctly, as are pre-ignition and vacuum advance.
If you are saying you've removed dirt from the carb, does that include all fuel galleries ? if not, get a overhaul set from Burton' and Red-line (between them they contain all you require, including the needle valves, and the power diaphragm) (and obviously clean all, pref ultrasonically)
It's also good to have a look if the injector (double jet at the top of the barrels) isn't corroded/blocked and get a new one, if so.
Do also check the working/setting of the choke.
If the axis' of the choke and accelarator plates aren't worn, there is no point in replacing the carb.
Do please report progress ....
Frank
Edited by bluezeeland on Saturday 15th February 19:34
The Reality is if you need to ask the question like me you need an expert.
I know that when the Taimar is finished and set up for running in once run in it will have a trip to my local rolling road before delivery to Ireland to its new home Some like things sort of right others want it really right you pays your money and take your choice.
A
Sorry mate, meant this:
http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id...
along with the burton' kit;
http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/fuel-...
between them they contain all required, apart from the pump jet (size should be stamped in) ;
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_det...
advance is checked by means of applying suction to the inlet on the dizzy diaphragm (where the small tube is on), do check the tube as well (block it, apply suction)
if you do not know how to set pre-ignition; either google it, or get a capri/Granada 3.0v6 workshop manual. (and a stroboscope/lend one)
as stated, please do report progress
Frank
http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id...
along with the burton' kit;
http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/fuel-...
between them they contain all required, apart from the pump jet (size should be stamped in) ;
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_det...
advance is checked by means of applying suction to the inlet on the dizzy diaphragm (where the small tube is on), do check the tube as well (block it, apply suction)
if you do not know how to set pre-ignition; either google it, or get a capri/Granada 3.0v6 workshop manual. (and a stroboscope/lend one)
as stated, please do report progress
Frank
prideaux said:
As I said you will get lots of suggestions and even Advice such as no need for a Rolling road rather than someone who does this for a living all the time obviously some Exert! people like Frank are happy to do there own set up and that's fine however road or track race rally or anything that starts makes noise smells bad and uses petrol benefits from the expertise that a good rolling road tuner can give you though not planning on taking the petrol strimmer over to him
The Reality is if you need to ask the question like me you need an expert.
I know that when the Taimar is finished and set up for running in once run in it will have a trip to my local rolling road before delivery to Ireland to its new home Some like things sort of right others want it really right you pays your money and take your choice.
A
If you leave everything to 'experts', there is nothing to learn/gain, whats the fun in that ?The Reality is if you need to ask the question like me you need an expert.
I know that when the Taimar is finished and set up for running in once run in it will have a trip to my local rolling road before delivery to Ireland to its new home Some like things sort of right others want it really right you pays your money and take your choice.
A
And, again, a rolling road is fine, for fine tuning a 'good' performing engine.......making it ace !
btw; if knowing the limitations of your abilities is what makes an expert, than I am......
F
Edited by bluezeeland on Saturday 15th February 21:56
Edited by bluezeeland on Saturday 15th February 22:02
Just a couple of thoughts
Have you checked the fuel pump is operating correctly.
On my 3000m there is a fuel filter built into the Webber carby, it is located just in front of where the fuel line attaches to the carby on the underside of it. There is a brass nut & when removed you will find the filter.
Have you checked the fuel pump is operating correctly.
On my 3000m there is a fuel filter built into the Webber carby, it is located just in front of where the fuel line attaches to the carby on the underside of it. There is a brass nut & when removed you will find the filter.
These subjects crop up now and again, truth is they cannot be resolved without being in situ. Working yourself methodically down the list will.......as an added bonus you will get to know your car better !
You did not report whether points (condensor ?) or electronic pickup is used, well worth the investment, but, then there is a load of possible causes....
Good luck, i'm sure you will find it
F
You did not report whether points (condensor ?) or electronic pickup is used, well worth the investment, but, then there is a load of possible causes....
Good luck, i'm sure you will find it
F
bluezeeland said:
These subjects crop up now and again, truth is they cannot be resolved without being in situ. Working yourself methodically down the list will.......as an added bonus you will get to know your car better !
You did not report whether points (condensor ?) or electronic pickup is used, well worth the investment, but, then there is a load of possible causes....
Good luck, i'm sure you will find it
F
Its got a luminition kit on it.You did not report whether points (condensor ?) or electronic pickup is used, well worth the investment, but, then there is a load of possible causes....
Good luck, i'm sure you will find it
F
What makes you say it's running lean?
If it was running lean, then I would have thought the choke opening (or do you mean when the choke goes off?) would make it run better.
Have you got the weber carb book? Very useful book, and it gives you the default settings for everything.
Is the W shaped diffuser in place, between the manifold and the carb? Is the pipe on it in good condition?
A Gunson colourtune or gas tester can be helpful in these situations just to get a better idea of what is actually happening with the mixture.
If it was running lean, then I would have thought the choke opening (or do you mean when the choke goes off?) would make it run better.
Have you got the weber carb book? Very useful book, and it gives you the default settings for everything.
Is the W shaped diffuser in place, between the manifold and the carb? Is the pipe on it in good condition?
A Gunson colourtune or gas tester can be helpful in these situations just to get a better idea of what is actually happening with the mixture.
Cerberus90 said:
What makes you say it's running lean?
If it was running lean, then I would have thought the choke opening (or do you mean when the choke goes off?) would make it run better.
Have you got the weber carb book? Very useful book, and it gives you the default settings for everything.
Is the W shaped diffuser in place, between the manifold and the carb? Is the pipe on it in good condition?
A Gunson colourtune or gas tester can be helpful in these situations just to get a better idea of what is actually happening with the mixture.
The car does not idle unless I rev the car or cover part of the air intake on the carb.If it was running lean, then I would have thought the choke opening (or do you mean when the choke goes off?) would make it run better.
Have you got the weber carb book? Very useful book, and it gives you the default settings for everything.
Is the W shaped diffuser in place, between the manifold and the carb? Is the pipe on it in good condition?
A Gunson colourtune or gas tester can be helpful in these situations just to get a better idea of what is actually happening with the mixture.
I mean when the choke goes off when the engine warms up.
No do you mean this one? clicky
I will see if anyone has a gas tester I can borrow and see what that says.
Have you done a plug-check, to confirm the lean diagnosis?
Have you pulled each plug wire individually, to determine if the problem is localised?
Have you pulled any of the plugs, to look for a good, bright spark?
You mentioned plugged idle jets, have you checked to see if there was a deposit build-up? How did you determine the orfice was clear and free of build-up?
Could be a bad coil, too, as those can let the car start, then idle, and soon overheat, and lose power.
Best,
B.
Have you pulled each plug wire individually, to determine if the problem is localised?
Have you pulled any of the plugs, to look for a good, bright spark?
You mentioned plugged idle jets, have you checked to see if there was a deposit build-up? How did you determine the orfice was clear and free of build-up?
Could be a bad coil, too, as those can let the car start, then idle, and soon overheat, and lose power.
Cerberus90 said:
. . . Gunson colourtune . . .
. . . best money I ever spent. Best,
B.
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