Speed event/Entrants licence questions

[Smart Alec]

Hi All,

I am planning to compete in hillclimbs this year with 'Froglet', the MR2 engined smart car.


The car runs in Sports Libre over 2000cc class, and I believed I needed a National A licence to compete with it. As a beginner last year I had to compete in other cars with a National B licence and obtain signatures for the upgrade. Annoyingly, due to lack of time/organisation on my part plus the final sprint of the year at Mallory Park being cancelled, I only got three signatures.

So, the plan was to get an event in early this year and send off for an upgrade.

Problem 1: I've now been told by someone who must know that in fact I need a National A Open licence to run in Sports Libre 2000cc+ (as opposed to just National A). I'm sure this information is correct but could somebody point me in the right direction in the Blue Book where I could confirm this, please? I'm sure it's me, but I'm not finding the Blue Book to be a model of clarity when it comes to explaining what licence is needed for what, and I'd just like to see this info in print.

Problem 2: Do I have to do one event and then send my licence off to upgrade to National A, then do four more events and send licence off again to upgrade to 'A Open', or can I obtain all 8 signatures (there is room for 12 signatures on last year's and this year's licence combined) and then send off to upgrade from National B to National A Open.

Assuming that I would need to send my licence off twice, does anyone know how long this process usually takes, because I can see myself missing some events whilst my licence is the hands of the MSA.

Next question: I'm considering paying for an Entrants Licence which would cost me a further £184. I'm not totally clear why I would need an entrants licence, beyond it allowing a line in each event programme next to my name in the entry list, which I see as a form of advertising.

I assume my entry cost to each event would also be higher when I enter as an Entrant as opposed to a personal entry in my own name, and I'm wondering if this is a cost-effective form of advertising. Are there aspects to the Entrants Licence that I'm not aware of? For instance, my business will be paying all costs, and I'm wondering if entering under the business name legitimises this in the eyes of the tax man.

Is this so, and is there anything I'm nissing out on here or not being aware of?

Thanks for any help guys,

Alec.

[Furyblade_Lee]

You can upgrade your NAT B speed to an A just by sending in results printouts or four events in which you competed in, I know many people who do that. Not sure why you would need more than a speed A for Sports Libra 2000cc and over, are you sure?

[Furyblade_Lee]

You can upgrade your NAT B speed to an A just by sending in results printouts or four events in which you competed in, I know many people who do that. Not sure why you would need more than a speed A for Sports Libra 2000cc and over, are you sure?

[Smart Alec]

Furyblade_Lee said:

1. You can upgrade your NAT B speed to an A just by sending in results printouts or four events in which you competed in, I know many people who do that.

2. Not sure why you would need more than a speed A for Sports Libra 2000cc and over, are you sure?

1. That's interesting, thanks for that. According to the Blue Book I have to send my licence in (and the upgrade card with signatures). I guess that come the time a phone call might sort that out.

2. I was told by the co-ordinator of the Midland Hillclimb Championship, who is one of those chaps that has been living the sport for decades and I imagine can probably recite the Blue Book backwards.

It was news to me though, and I can't confirm it in th Blue Book. In fact, I've now seen that it appears there is an email address specifically for this type of query.

I'll give them a go, many thanks for your help.

[carl_w]

The regs talk about upgrading from Non-Race Nat B to Speed Nat A by getting four signatures, and then from Nat A to Nat A (Open) by getting another four signatures. If you could prove you had competed in 8 events that might be OK?

It goes on to say Speed Nat A (Open) or Race Nat A is required for all vehicles defined in S7.1 of the regulations.

S7.1.5 says "7.1.5. Any Driver competing in a Racing or Sports Libre car manufactured after 1960 of more than 2000cc (or 1428cc if forced induction) must hold a Speed National A (OPEN) or Race National A Licence (H.16.1.1), unless the car is currently licensed for use on the public highway and competes in the event in a road-legal condition."

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/2014_... section 16.2.1 talks about upgrades, Chart 26 talks about the minimum licence required, note 8 mentions the Nat A (Open) thing and S7.1.5 of the blue book is https://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blue...

[Smart Alec]

carl_w said:

The regs talk about upgrading from Non-Race Nat B to Speed Nat A by getting four signatures, and then from Nat A to Nat A (Open) by getting another four signatures. If you could prove you had competed in 8 events that might be OK?

It goes on to say Speed Nat A (Open) or Race Nat A is required for all vehicles defined in S7.1 of the regulations.

S7.1.5 says "7.1.5. Any Driver competing in a Racing or Sports Libre car manufactured after 1960 of more than 2000cc (or 1428cc if forced induction) must hold a Speed National A (OPEN) or Race National A Licence (H.16.1.1), unless the car is currently licensed for use on the public highway and competes in the event in a road-legal condition."

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/2014_... section 16.2.1 talks about upgrades, Chart 26 talks about the minimum licence required, note 8 mentions the Nat A (Open) thing and S7.1.5 of the blue book is https://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blue...

Ah-ha! That's it, isn't it?

Right, so I just need to ask about the 2x4 or 8 signatures.

Thanks very much.

[carl_w]

Unless you can get your car into road-legal condition (I don't know what you've done to it, but could it be as simple as sticking some number plates on it and getting tax?)

Doh! Wouldn't be able to run slicks then, would you?

[andylaurence]

You can absolutely upgrade directly from Nat B to Nat A Open with 8 signatures. A friend is doing just that at the moment. As already pointed out, you need a Nat A Open licence unless the car competes in a road legal condition. If you call the MSA, they might accept print outs of results in lieu of signatures if you've forgotten to get them.

[Smart Alec]

andylaurence said:

You can absolutely upgrade directly from Nat B to Nat A Open with 8 signatures. A friend is doing just that at the moment. As already pointed out, you need a Nat A Open licence unless the car competes in a road legal condition. If you call the MSA, they might accept print outs of results in lieu of signatures if you've forgotten to get them.

Right, well that's definitely what I'll do then, remembering to keep all printed results in case I forget a signature.

That's that sorted, then does anyone have advice re the value of an entrant's licence, please?

Cheers all, Alec.

[GC8]

You might be able to substitute a days marshalling for one signiture too, if that helps. Easier in the middle of the season, of course.

[binnerboy]

doesn't a valid MOT certificate mean the car is road legal ?

[andylaurence]

binnerboy said:

doesn't a valid MOT certificate mean the car is road legal ?

A valid MOT is required for a car to be road legal, but having one doesn't mean it is legal. For example, a car with a valid MOT, no tax disc and slick tyres is not road legal on the basis that it has no tax disc and does not have road legal tyres.