transit woes…lunched the turbo??

[virgil]

hi all. not sure where best placed to put their, but…got a very poorly mk 6 transit. 2004 reg 2.4 90/330.

had started to hear what sounded like an over tightened cam belt or turbo whine, noticeably from the cab and as only do short journeys thought 'i'll look at that next week'…well, next wee ever came...

today whist driving it just suddenly lost power…dropped to idle and won't rev above about 1200 rpm. managed to crawl home as about 20mph in 5th with much grey smoke…heard a bit if a graunching sound at one point but otherwise it drove ok on idle but just won't rev.

Done 160k miles, so no spring chicken.

I'm mechanically savvy on petral engines, but sadly i know very little about diesels. My guess it i've lunched the turbo, and hope i've not ingested any/too much of the blades if i have.

Does that sound right and is there any way of telling/testing and seeing if I've now got half a turbo in the cylinders??

have read elsewhere about fuel filters etc, but is that likely to cause sudden and total loss of power at anything other than ladle…and that turbo whine really leadsmen to dead turbo??

any help appreciate to get the old girl back on the road….

thanks,

virgil

[Bennachie]

High pressure pump?

Would have expected it to rev albeit with no power if the turbo had gone BUT if the impeller has shaved the casing and the detritus has been ingested..............

[Locknut]

Has it got a "drive by wire" throttle? Could it be something as simple as simple as failure of your throttle connection?

[virgil]

i know what you mean about revving…its'a weird one, but then my diesel knowledge is next to zero….any easy way to test the HP pump??

I ever noticed the turbo until a couple of weeks ago and i on;y drive the van once or twice a week on average…which is why i'm lending turbo ward…

might see if i can get it off and take a look...

[virgil]

Locknut said:

Has it got a "drive by wire" throttle? Could it be something as simple as simple as failure of your throttle connection?

not sure it's as simple as drive by wire playing up…not sure that'd explain the smoke or the smell…something mechanical has gone, i'm sure!!

[virgil]

looks like an EGR valve/tube issue. EGR tube had sheared off the back of the valve when I unbolted it to check it. have given the valve a really good clean as it was full of thick crud. think this is a good example of why I'm not a diesel lover by nature!! petrol by nature of being a very light HC tends to clen stuff, whereas diesel seems to leave thick black tar everywhere!!

so hopefully new tube or blank it off and all good...

[virgil]

Hmmm, replaced the cleaned EGR and blanked off the port and the exhaust port, but no luck…engine idles, but again no power.

When I had the EGR completely off and the inlet exposed to air, the engine revved…now, all connected back up it doesn't…it revs to about 950rpm…certainly does not go above 1000…i'm getting quite a lot of grey smoke too…

any further ideas chaps??

Edited by virgil on Wednesday 19th February 23:47

[scarble]

With the EGR entirely off it's ok? Even with the holes, both intake and exhaust open to atmosphere?

[virgil]

Well, not sure 'OK' is the right term, but certainly seemed better and reved...I guess there was no power there though.

Yes - both holes were open to atmos...EGR just removed, so exhaust open to atmos via the pipe that runs from the rear of the exhaust manifild round the back of the engine to the EGR, and with the EGR removed the inlet pipe from the intercooler was about 3" fromt the inlet manifold...onlt ran it for a few seconds, but seemed better...

Now it's all been reassembled with the cleaned out and blanked off EGR and exhaust manifold it starts (took several attempts to maintain an idle when cold) but a little (or a lot of) throttle raises the revs a 100rpm or so, but that's it...

Will try with the EGR off again tonight and see what happens...

[scarble]

So with the EGR "on" you've put blanking plates over both holes? So between the valve and manifold?
EGR valves can have position feedback to the ECU so if it is plugged in and moving the engine is going to think it's adding EGR and it might adjust fuelling thinking it has EGR but not having that EGR and hence running like crap or it might have intake air temperature and pressure sensors and be getting confused because these can't see the EGR or maybe the EGR valve is stuck open or closed either mechanically or electrically. Or something.
How much is a new EGR valve?

[virgil]

scarble said:

So with the EGR "on" you've put blanking plates over both holes? So between the valve and manifold?
EGR valves can have position feedback to the ECU so if it is plugged in and moving the engine is going to think it's adding EGR and it might adjust fuelling thinking it has EGR but not having that EGR and hence running like crap or it might have intake air temperature and pressure sensors and be getting confused because these can't see the EGR or maybe the EGR valve is stuck open or closed either mechanically or electrically. Or something.
How much is a new EGR valve?

Yep - blanked the valve from the exhaust flow effectivey - apparently a usual trick with the mk6 - mk7 throws an error, but ok on the mk6

[scarble]

I think you've answered your own question then.
You can either suck it and see (drive with the valve fitted but blanked) and risk catastrophic engine damage if the EGR valve isn't the issue or you can get it towed to a garage.

Reading your description though it sounds like it went into limp home but the engine light didn't come on soo..
Another possibility is a leak in the EGR pipe.
Or maybe it is the turbo.. or wastegate?

[radical78]

take the air inlet pipe of the turbo and spin the tubo by hand it should spin smoothly if its rough/ grity its naked

[virgil]

scarble said:

I think you've answered your own question then.
You can either suck it and see (drive with the valve fitted but blanked) and risk catastrophic engine damage if the EGR valve isn't the issue or you can get it towed to a garage.

Reading your description though it sounds like it went into limp home but the engine light didn't come on soo..
Another possibility is a leak in the EGR pipe.
Or maybe it is the turbo.. or wastegate?

There was def a leak in the EGR pipe - it had split right off (hence the blanng plates now)

radical78 said:

take the air inlet pipe of the turbo and spin the tubo by hand it should spin smoothly if its rough/ grity its naked

Thanks - that was my initial thought but then got lead up the EGR path.

Will take another look tonight.

[virgil]

Well, took a few inlet/intercooler pipes off and checked the air filter as the engine revved freely when inlet manifold exposed to atmosphere and found a lot of large chunks of the oil soaked air filter in the turbo pipe inlet, turbo and in the blades. gave it a good clean out and now runs a hell of a lot better. Not perfect still, so either i've got paper machet now in the intercooler, or there's still a bit stuck in the turbo…will have another look in the light, but certainly found the source of the issue!!

I wonder if it was a build u of back pressure in the exhaust that split the EGR valve tube…at least that's fixed and out the way now.

Thanks for suggestions. Now just need to read up ho easy it is to get the turbo off!!

[virgil]

radical78 said:

take the air inlet pipe of the turbo and spin the tubo by hand it should spin smoothly if its rough/ grity its naked

Gritty and rough were far from the equation - try blocked with paper air filter. Several blades are bent quite baldy, BUT it still spins up and makes some power now I've managed to get the blockages out.

Next job though is to replace the turbo…

[scarble]

bent blades? oof.
so, how big a puddle did you charge through?

[virgil]

Day was dry as a bone. Air filter was saturated with oil (diesel?) and disintegrated. Just need to know now if it's possible to get the turbo off without removing the manifold as well...actuator rod seems to be the biggest headache. Had the rest of the bolts off last night, but this last bit threw me, so put it back together again...whist I awaited advice...

[virgil]

Day was dry as a bone. Air filter was saturated with oil (diesel?) and disintegrated. Just need to know now if it's possible to get the turbo off without removing the manifold as well...actuator rod seems to be the biggest headache. Had the rest of the bolts off last night, but this last bit threw me, so put it back together again...whist I awaited advice...

[Zad]

I think I'd want to know where the oil/diesel came from before installing a new turbo. Might it be a blocked crank case breather, or alternatively a piston run losing seal and causing exhaust gases to blow-by and pressurise the crank case?