No, I dont expect you to feel sorry for me
Discussion
What a terrible situation im in!
I'll start at the beginning. In early January I decided if I wanted to own a V8 I had to do it now and infact there was nothing really stopping me from getting something for the summer with a good sounding engine that could be manupulated properly with real gears.
So Ive been looking into Chimaeras very seriously, and now Im sitting with the money looking for the right car, but Ive fallen into what must be the trap of any potential buyer: chassis and engine paranoia.
Theres a lot at stake and I keep thinking about MOT failing rust, camshafts, HG failure, clutch. Actualy the list is never ending. So can anyone tell me how they ended up with their car, and if the paranoia paid off?
At this point Id be tempted just to close my eyes and pick a car at random.
I'll start at the beginning. In early January I decided if I wanted to own a V8 I had to do it now and infact there was nothing really stopping me from getting something for the summer with a good sounding engine that could be manupulated properly with real gears.
So Ive been looking into Chimaeras very seriously, and now Im sitting with the money looking for the right car, but Ive fallen into what must be the trap of any potential buyer: chassis and engine paranoia.
Theres a lot at stake and I keep thinking about MOT failing rust, camshafts, HG failure, clutch. Actualy the list is never ending. So can anyone tell me how they ended up with their car, and if the paranoia paid off?
At this point Id be tempted just to close my eyes and pick a car at random.
Just make your own inspection that visibly the car looks ok and sounds right. Take it for a test drive and then appreciate that given the age of the cars there will most likely be something that needs attention, but the joy of driving it will outweigh that paranoia.
Didn't know too much about them prior to my purchase. Had a couple of issues, but overall a great car to own and drive.
Didn't know too much about them prior to my purchase. Had a couple of issues, but overall a great car to own and drive.
If you want to be 100% sure then the only to do that is buy a known sorted car,
there are a detailed restoration threads on here and you can see what has been done, but these cars come at a premium, you can get an inspection done by a specialist to ease your mind, you can use common sense or even the 'force', just be sensible.
Take as many cars as you can out, see if you can tell the difference, and see how they feel.
Take someone who knows about them with you. People have been caught out by 'outriggers fine' in the advert and its cost them £1500 after it failed its next mot, its just a case of finding a car that you like, that's the right price, the right colour and feels right for you
Good luck and you will have no fun if you have phobia's about things, enjoy the experience as you will only ever buy your first TVR once.
there are a detailed restoration threads on here and you can see what has been done, but these cars come at a premium, you can get an inspection done by a specialist to ease your mind, you can use common sense or even the 'force', just be sensible.
Take as many cars as you can out, see if you can tell the difference, and see how they feel.
Take someone who knows about them with you. People have been caught out by 'outriggers fine' in the advert and its cost them £1500 after it failed its next mot, its just a case of finding a car that you like, that's the right price, the right colour and feels right for you
Good luck and you will have no fun if you have phobia's about things, enjoy the experience as you will only ever buy your first TVR once.
If you want peace of mind, find a well known sorted car, or go to a well known dealer who has a good reputation., James agger springs to mind. For me, I wasn't hundred percent sure about everything but it looked ok, sounded great and went like stink compared to a couple of other chims I drove so bought it.
Either that or buy a car and leave enough budget to replace outriggers or engine parts if need be and if something does go you have the money there ready.
Either that or buy a car and leave enough budget to replace outriggers or engine parts if need be and if something does go you have the money there ready.
Are you 'hands-on' with your maintenance/repairs? If not, then before you buy find where your nearest garage is that is experienced with TVR's and go and have a chat with them. It's no fun buying a TVR if you are hundreds of miles from someone who can sort out the inevitable niggles and even cars that have a good history will need fettling ('tis all part of the fun!!)
As said before, unless you buy a well sorted car from a respected dealer you are taking a risk and that applies to any make!!
As said before, unless you buy a well sorted car from a respected dealer you are taking a risk and that applies to any make!!
I'll echo everything above…
The only sure fire way of knowing the car you are buying is 100% is to go for one with a documented chassis restoration by a respected garage, a full engine rebuild by the likes of TVR power (with warranty). New alarm/immobiliser by the likes of carl baker etc etc
.
In short this would be a very expensive car! - I'd want £15k+ if it was mine!
Otherwise you are taking an element of chance (but then isn't this the case with most things). You can mitigate by going for a car with a good history, owned by an enthusiast (I.E Pistonheads or TVRCC) who knows the car inside out.
if the car looks well looked after and the owner can answer your questions about all the above without a blank look on his face then it's likely (although never definitely) a good-un!
If it's any consolation I don't see many posts along the lines of - I bought my chimera 2 months ago, it looked great, drove well and the seller was ace and now the engines blown, chassis collapsed etc. The writings usually on the wall when you go and look at the car.
The only sure fire way of knowing the car you are buying is 100% is to go for one with a documented chassis restoration by a respected garage, a full engine rebuild by the likes of TVR power (with warranty). New alarm/immobiliser by the likes of carl baker etc etc
.
In short this would be a very expensive car! - I'd want £15k+ if it was mine!
Otherwise you are taking an element of chance (but then isn't this the case with most things). You can mitigate by going for a car with a good history, owned by an enthusiast (I.E Pistonheads or TVRCC) who knows the car inside out.
if the car looks well looked after and the owner can answer your questions about all the above without a blank look on his face then it's likely (although never definitely) a good-un!
If it's any consolation I don't see many posts along the lines of - I bought my chimera 2 months ago, it looked great, drove well and the seller was ace and now the engines blown, chassis collapsed etc. The writings usually on the wall when you go and look at the car.
I brought mine from a specialist and part of the deal were new outriggers. Selling cars is not their main business so I got it at a decent price too.
Part of the appeal for me was that compared to cars from German Manf the Chimaera was going to be less to fix if something really bad went wrong (chassis aside).
I had been burnt badly with a 968CS (Replaced cams, clutch, flywheel, HG went) and an E39 M5 so I didn't want the same thing to happen again.
Whats your budget? I know of a nice 450 that I had inspected, needs £2-3K of work but it would be mint and you would be safe in the knowledge that you had a tip top car.
Part of the appeal for me was that compared to cars from German Manf the Chimaera was going to be less to fix if something really bad went wrong (chassis aside).
I had been burnt badly with a 968CS (Replaced cams, clutch, flywheel, HG went) and an E39 M5 so I didn't want the same thing to happen again.
Whats your budget? I know of a nice 450 that I had inspected, needs £2-3K of work but it would be mint and you would be safe in the knowledge that you had a tip top car.
Two ways to go about it IMO:
1) Buy a sorted car that's well documented from someone you know and trust. Don't expect it to go for anywhere near the 'bottom dollar' prices you see in the classifieds for privately advertised cars.
2) Go look at some of those privately advertised cars at a budget you can comfortably afford, do all the usual checks and go with your gut feeling about car and seller. Although the pickings have gotten less rich than they were a couple of years ago, there's still a few about at he £6-8K level that would be worth a look. Then, assume that you will have to fund an outrigger replacement and a cam change (both/each £1.5-2K) if a proper job at some point sooner rather than later, and prepare for some minor curveballs to be thrown your way along the road.
Any minor heartache will be completely forgotten about when you twist that ignition key within the comfort of your own garage, hear and feel that V8 and realise this is all yours for as long as you want it!
1) Buy a sorted car that's well documented from someone you know and trust. Don't expect it to go for anywhere near the 'bottom dollar' prices you see in the classifieds for privately advertised cars.
2) Go look at some of those privately advertised cars at a budget you can comfortably afford, do all the usual checks and go with your gut feeling about car and seller. Although the pickings have gotten less rich than they were a couple of years ago, there's still a few about at he £6-8K level that would be worth a look. Then, assume that you will have to fund an outrigger replacement and a cam change (both/each £1.5-2K) if a proper job at some point sooner rather than later, and prepare for some minor curveballs to be thrown your way along the road.
Any minor heartache will be completely forgotten about when you twist that ignition key within the comfort of your own garage, hear and feel that V8 and realise this is all yours for as long as you want it!
Edited by 900T-R on Monday 17th February 13:18
Don't entirely agree Steve that they are as easy as you say. I see the OP has an MG midget and if he is not used to maintaining or diagnosing cars with fuel injection/electronic ECU's then this is not an area for a DIY mechanic. I know the block is a typical Buick/Rover V8 but TVR tweaked a few things to catch out the unwary.
Admittedly the chassis is easier to get at (and therefore repairable by a DIY mech) but if you want to persuade someone to part with their hard-earned cash when the time comes to sell, then a nice receipt from a recognised TVR specialist is gonna pay for itself in re-sale value!
Just my opinion.
Admittedly the chassis is easier to get at (and therefore repairable by a DIY mech) but if you want to persuade someone to part with their hard-earned cash when the time comes to sell, then a nice receipt from a recognised TVR specialist is gonna pay for itself in re-sale value!
Just my opinion.
Personally I think there is far too much hype and mystique banded about on TVRs. They are not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination and the RV8 based ones if serviced properly, just like any other car in the world, will generally be fine. If the chassis is solid and there are no unusual engine noises and a service history( beware of some marque specialists!!) you should be ok. All vehicles old and some new (Peugeot 307hdi anyone?)are a bit of a lottery. A good owner is just as important and beware the 'specialist' who tells you how much he knows! Bulls
t baffles brains! Buy one that's been used regularly it will be far less trouble and keep using it. My 99 Chimaera 500 has done 117k miles on the original camshaft, never misses a beat, never overheats and returns 26 mpg on a run on the cheapest fuel, oh, and never needs oil top up between services! I ALWAYS let the temp gauge rise to 70C+ before using large throttle openings.(Axles and gearboxes need to come up to temp as well!)
Make sure if you go to see anything that the engine has not been run in previous 24hrs, if its warm when you arrive be aware it most probably has lifter drain etc. That's one of the reasons why a low mileage, look what I've got, show car will most probably be trouble if you intend using it. They are for driving and there is nothing else that comes close!
t baffles brains! Buy one that's been used regularly it will be far less trouble and keep using it. My 99 Chimaera 500 has done 117k miles on the original camshaft, never misses a beat, never overheats and returns 26 mpg on a run on the cheapest fuel, oh, and never needs oil top up between services! I ALWAYS let the temp gauge rise to 70C+ before using large throttle openings.(Axles and gearboxes need to come up to temp as well!)Make sure if you go to see anything that the engine has not been run in previous 24hrs, if its warm when you arrive be aware it most probably has lifter drain etc. That's one of the reasons why a low mileage, look what I've got, show car will most probably be trouble if you intend using it. They are for driving and there is nothing else that comes close!
Rib said:
If you want peace of mind, find a well known sorted car, or go to a well known dealer who has a good reputation., James agger springs to mind. For me, I wasn't hundred percent sure about everything but it looked ok, sounded great and went like stink compared to a couple of other chims I drove so bought it.
Either that or buy a car and leave enough budget to replace outriggers or engine parts if need be and if something does go you have the money there ready.
Spot on Rib. I would recommend James Agger to anyone - I am sure he will have checked over any car he is selling and his prices always seem pretty keen for a dealer. Failing that get someone who knows what they are looking at - they are relatively simple if you know what you are doing.Either that or buy a car and leave enough budget to replace outriggers or engine parts if need be and if something does go you have the money there ready.
I just saw one advertised privately in the classifieds that I liked the look of, rung up and did a deal, then got him to drive it about 150 miles to my house. Didn't even see it in the flesh, or sit in it, until I owned it. All seems well after six months. I appreciate this approach may not suit everyone. 
It's only a car. Enjoy owning it and driving it and if it breaks, get it fixed.
It's only a car. Enjoy owning it and driving it and if it breaks, get it fixed.
Thanks everyone for offering advice. There does seem to be a common theme. The simplicity of the Rover V8 is one of the attractions of the Chim, and Im warming up to the idea of working on the chassis myself (even if to prevent me wraping it round a tree during winter).
I have jumped in with both feet with a lot of previous cars. I was lucky with the GTfour and oa few others, but it was too late when I discovered my Jag had wet footwells and I didnt think the Midget would cost so much to restore. So this time I atleast dont want to regret not seeking advice first. Spoting engine issues on a test run is the main thing Im concerned I'll miss.
Im looking around the £7500 mark, which is still nearly 5K more than Ive ever spent on a car so to me that is very expensive. So a cheaper car that may develop faults may not be a bad idea as the rest of my budget could sort them out, then I know whats been done.
Looks like I'll have to budget around 1k on fuel and drive round the UK to look at a few cars. I cant believe theres only one for sale in Scotland.
I have jumped in with both feet with a lot of previous cars. I was lucky with the GTfour and oa few others, but it was too late when I discovered my Jag had wet footwells and I didnt think the Midget would cost so much to restore. So this time I atleast dont want to regret not seeking advice first. Spoting engine issues on a test run is the main thing Im concerned I'll miss.
Im looking around the £7500 mark, which is still nearly 5K more than Ive ever spent on a car so to me that is very expensive. So a cheaper car that may develop faults may not be a bad idea as the rest of my budget could sort them out, then I know whats been done.
Looks like I'll have to budget around 1k on fuel and drive round the UK to look at a few cars. I cant believe theres only one for sale in Scotland.
'I cant believe theres only one for sale in Scotland.'
There's your first problem, availability. If you haven't already got one, buy yourself a copy of Steve Heath's Bible and read it cover to cover
until you can memorise all the different variations that Chims come in; they are not just mk1 and mk 2!!
Then forget your budget for the moment and go to the nearest TVR dealer who will have a (small?) stock of them and this will help you gauge whether a £7500 car is where you want to be, as you could easily spend 2.5k putting it right!
Finally, don't forget to budget for the 'foreign' car tax you will have to pay after September!!!!
There's your first problem, availability. If you haven't already got one, buy yourself a copy of Steve Heath's Bible and read it cover to cover
until you can memorise all the different variations that Chims come in; they are not just mk1 and mk 2!!Then forget your budget for the moment and go to the nearest TVR dealer who will have a (small?) stock of them and this will help you gauge whether a £7500 car is where you want to be, as you could easily spend 2.5k putting it right!
Finally, don't forget to budget for the 'foreign' car tax you will have to pay after September!!!!
yknot said:
Then forget your budget for the moment and go to the nearest TVR dealer who will have a (small?) stock of them and this will help you gauge whether a £7500 car is where you want to be, as you could easily spend 2.5k putting it right!
In fairness, the same goes for just about any £10K or £15K car for sale... Somehow, Chimaera prices are not so much a reflection of the actual car's condition as of age/mileage and whether it's sold privately or by a dealer. Agreed, but as the OP was surprised how much it cost to restore his MG Midget I am just suggesting that he might be more comfortable buying with a warranty from a reputable dealer and budgeting a bit more than £7500 in the first place.
All depends of course on what he wants to spend his time doing, driving or spannering!
All depends of course on what he wants to spend his time doing, driving or spannering!
Thing is, when I saw the list of 'stuff' (overspray signifying that the rear quarter has had paint, oil pressure gauge stuck at 30 psi, someone having taken a rattle can to the intake plenum etc., outriggers were done on this one I think but no other major work undertaken) with the £15K Chim 400 from one of the higher priced establishments that justifies their prices with excellent pre-sales preparation that one of the classic car mags tested as an example for their Chim buying guide a year or two ago I thought, well, that's not so different from your average £ 7.5K 400 actually...
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