Speed 6 engine question
Discussion
I have read untold stories about these engines going bang etc and to be honest it is really putting me off ever owning one.
Simple question:
What is the most mileage any owner has done on the same engine without any serious engine work needing doing and when was your car built?
Anything more than adjusting the tappets as per service schedule is what I regard as serious work.
I am only interested in cars that have been looked after properly, any car at this performance level will be unreliable is not looked after. Please give me some hope, but I only want the truth.
Ivan
Simple question:
What is the most mileage any owner has done on the same engine without any serious engine work needing doing and when was your car built?
Anything more than adjusting the tappets as per service schedule is what I regard as serious work.
I am only interested in cars that have been looked after properly, any car at this performance level will be unreliable is not looked after. Please give me some hope, but I only want the truth.
Ivan
I am in a similar position, I am looking to buy a Tuscan next year and I'm trying to find out as much as I can about them. With regards to the engine, and indeed anything else going wrong, I think the biggest question is: What's your personal tolerance for risk? (i.e. the risk of something going wrong).
As I'm sure you will already appreciate, any car you buy will always have that risk of it being a 'Friday afternoon car', that was seemingly just slapped together. I have two friends with 'normal' cars, one an Alfa Romeo 147, the other a Peugeot 206 GTi. Both have been regular visitors to the garages for over a year after purchase, so things are not always well in mass-produced land. I know of someone who had a his BMW M3 die on the way home from buying it, but a dealer repair fixed it and it's not missed a beat since. I know of a brand new Gallardo needing a new clutch after 2000 miles.
There is a lot of noise about the S6 engine, and I don't doubt there are issues, but every manufacturer is susceptible to that. Audi had to pull back thousands of A6s for a problem with hydraulic lifters (if I remember right). The Aston Martin Vanquish S that was on Top Gear and Fifth Gear recently spent 3 weeks going back and forth to Aston to have the gearbox sorted, and it kept popping belts while Vicki B-H was driving it.....and that's a lot more expensive than a Tuscan!! Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos....they'll all have their issues. Some cars will be trouble forever, some will run fine forever.
But from most of the Tuscan owners comments I've seen, the enjoyment you'll get from ownership far outweighs any issues you'll experience. You might get a 'bad' car, but doing as much research on any one you intend to buy will probably help to avoid buying a lemon. You might get a 'good' car, and you'll probably not think twice about any of this. Like I said, it's whether you're willing to take the risk, whatever size it may be.
I'm willing to take it, even though I've currently got a car that's been off the road for nine months with problems (Mitsubishi GTO). Sh*t will happen, no matter what you drive.
This has probably sounded really patronising, 'cos I'm sure you know all this and most of it is obvious anyway, but I just thought it might help to hear someone else say it! Maybe.
I'll get my coat.......
>> Edited by MarkoTVR on Saturday 20th November 12:36
As I'm sure you will already appreciate, any car you buy will always have that risk of it being a 'Friday afternoon car', that was seemingly just slapped together. I have two friends with 'normal' cars, one an Alfa Romeo 147, the other a Peugeot 206 GTi. Both have been regular visitors to the garages for over a year after purchase, so things are not always well in mass-produced land. I know of someone who had a his BMW M3 die on the way home from buying it, but a dealer repair fixed it and it's not missed a beat since. I know of a brand new Gallardo needing a new clutch after 2000 miles.
There is a lot of noise about the S6 engine, and I don't doubt there are issues, but every manufacturer is susceptible to that. Audi had to pull back thousands of A6s for a problem with hydraulic lifters (if I remember right). The Aston Martin Vanquish S that was on Top Gear and Fifth Gear recently spent 3 weeks going back and forth to Aston to have the gearbox sorted, and it kept popping belts while Vicki B-H was driving it.....and that's a lot more expensive than a Tuscan!! Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos....they'll all have their issues. Some cars will be trouble forever, some will run fine forever.
But from most of the Tuscan owners comments I've seen, the enjoyment you'll get from ownership far outweighs any issues you'll experience. You might get a 'bad' car, but doing as much research on any one you intend to buy will probably help to avoid buying a lemon. You might get a 'good' car, and you'll probably not think twice about any of this. Like I said, it's whether you're willing to take the risk, whatever size it may be.
I'm willing to take it, even though I've currently got a car that's been off the road for nine months with problems (Mitsubishi GTO). Sh*t will happen, no matter what you drive.
This has probably sounded really patronising, 'cos I'm sure you know all this and most of it is obvious anyway, but I just thought it might help to hear someone else say it! Maybe.
I'll get my coat.......
>> Edited by MarkoTVR on Saturday 20th November 12:36
This may not be what you want to here but i have now done over 30,000mls in my Speed Six Cerby and have had 3 engine rebuilds but this last one which TVR have put on, is the 2003 spec head and feels great and such a diference from the first head.
What i am saying is if the work has been done to upgrade the head you should be OK. I have always warmed the engine up and not pushed it untill very warmed up, also have had full dealer service history. I would find out what work has been done if any and get the latest car you can afford and go for it, i don't regret it.(with the Cerby anyway)
What i am saying is if the work has been done to upgrade the head you should be OK. I have always warmed the engine up and not pushed it untill very warmed up, also have had full dealer service history. I would find out what work has been done if any and get the latest car you can afford and go for it, i don't regret it.(with the Cerby anyway)
MarkoTVR said:
I think the biggest question is: What's your personal tolerance for risk? (i.e. the risk of something going wrong).
I already drive a TVR, that must answer that one. Having said that I have had no problems with the one I currently own.
MarkoTVR said:
As I'm sure you will already appreciate, any car you buy will always have that risk of it being a 'Friday afternoon car'
All I am trying to find out is if they build these engines on any other day of the week
MarkoTVR said:
There is a lot of noise about the S6 engine, and I don't doubt there are issues, but every manufacturer is susceptible to that.
True, but I know of one car that failed after 281 miles and was trailered to Blackpool to join the rebuild queue leaving the new owner with nothing to drive. Cannot see many other manufacturers trying to get away with that.
MarkoTVR said:
This has probably sounded really patronising
Not at all, everything you said is what is already in my mind, what I was hoping for is that there would be a few people that would be in a position to say they have got away with it, not much evidence of it so far.
The thing is if you need a rebuild a year (12000 miles) and add to that the horrendous depreciation then that somewhat blows the cheaper performance/money thing that TVR has always been good at.
To be honest I think buying a new TVR on that basis is a mugs game and not one I would contemplate.
Ivan
kevin63 said:
This may not be what you want to here but i have now done over 30,000mls in my Speed Six Cerby and have had 3 engine rebuilds but this last one which TVR have put on, is the 2003 spec head and feels great and such a diference from the first head.
What i am saying is if the work has been done to upgrade the head you should be OK. I have always warmed the engine up and not pushed it untill very warmed up, also have had full dealer service history. I would find out what work has been done if any and get the latest car you can afford and go for it, i don't regret it.(with the Cerby anyway)
Not exactly what I was hoping for.
I have read lots of bits and pieces about this 2003 head, including a theory that it is no different to older ones? Is there any visible difference that you know of and have you seen it yourself?
Ivan
On the first two engine head faults they replaced parts and on the head, and above the exhaust manifold it said REWORKED stamped on it but after the new head was fitted it just said something like S6. Don't forget i can see the engine as it is in a Cerby so can see externaly what is happening.
My opinion: All old finger followers and valve guides were about as much use as building them out of cardboard. Newer engines and recently rebuilt ones drive infinitely better, and by all accounts have those inherent problems fixed. Which just leaves you with the usual chance of TVR niggles.
Have done 5,000 miles in my Tuscan over the 3 months or so since its last rebuild, and it's yet to use a single drop of oil. Would happily have an S6 engined car again, as long as it had been re/built recently.
Have done 5,000 miles in my Tuscan over the 3 months or so since its last rebuild, and it's yet to use a single drop of oil. Would happily have an S6 engined car again, as long as it had been re/built recently.
J_S_G said:
My opinion: All old finger followers and valve guides were about as much use as building them out of cardboard. Newer engines and recently rebuilt ones drive infinitely better, and by all accounts have those inherent problems fixed. Which just leaves you with the usual chance of TVR niggles.
Have done 5,000 miles in my Tuscan over the 3 months or so since its last rebuild, and it's yet to use a single drop of oil. Would happily have an S6 engined car again, as long as it had been re/built recently.
Is there such a thing as a "different" head, cannot get a straight answer from anyone? Most people seem to get the valve guides and followers replaced - until they go again. Lets face it, 5000 miles is early days still to claim success.
Ribol said:
Is there such a thing as a "different" head, cannot get a straight answer from anyone? Most people seem to get the valve guides and followers replaced - until they go again. Lets face it, 5000 miles is early days still to claim success.
Not claiming success at all and totally agree... when I see a dozen in a row all hit 60k without any engine work, that's success. But the engine feels and sounds so different, much less clattery and more "engineered".
I've heard from a couple of informed sources that there is no "updated head" - but was specifically talking about 4l engines. Whether the 3.6 is any different, I couldn't comment. Don't think that "new" finger followers will be letting go anymore; there are far too many cars out there with many more miles on them with no rebuilds for there still to be the original problem there. Got absolutely guaranteed that both that and the valve guide issue was sorted when I had the rebuild done.
J_S_G said:
Don't think that "new" finger followers will be letting go anymore; there are far too many cars out there with many more miles on them with no rebuilds for there still to be the original problem there.
OK, this maybe some misguided optimism on my part from not having owned a TVR as yet, but here goes.....
We're all aware of some of the questionable decisions made by companies (of all sizes), but surely to keep rebuilding engines without using updated parts to fix the issues would be a dangeous game to play?
If uprated followers are now being used, perhaps some of the earlier rebuilds were done with the old part as availability of the new part was limited?
Also, it seems like the Speed Six is the powerplant of choice for all the latest TVRs. I guess TVR don't have the money just to get another engine on a whim, but surely basing all your models on a engine with such a problem would be suicidal, and you wouldn't consider it without having a fix?
On a less considered note, there are six pages of posts for the "Who's never had a rebuild?" thread, and three for the "Who has...." thread. Not exact science, but......
MarkoTVR said:
J_S_G said:
Don't think that "new" finger followers will be letting go anymore; there are far too many cars out there with many more miles on them with no rebuilds for there still to be the original problem there.
OK, this maybe some misguided optimism on my part from not having owned a TVR as yet, but here goes.....
We're all aware of some of the questionable decisions made by companies (of all sizes), but surely to keep rebuilding engines without using updated parts to fix the issues would be a dangeous game to play?
If uprated followers are now being used, perhaps some of the earlier rebuilds were done with the old part as availability of the new part was limited?
Also, it seems like the Speed Six is the powerplant of choice for all the latest TVRs. I guess TVR don't have the money just to get another engine on a whim, but surely basing all your models on a engine with such a problem would be suicidal, and you wouldn't consider it without having a fix?
On a less considered note, there are six pages of posts for the "Who's never had a rebuild?" thread, and three for the "Who has...." thread. Not exact science, but......
i think you must not have noticed, but the car industry, particularlry small british sports car, are business's, historically littered with bad business decisions and suicidal marketing...
I never assume(until proven otherwise) would Not do something that daft.
When business do daft things all the time. AND go under.
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Monday 22 November 21:50
Hi
I bought my Tuscan at the beginning of this year and would only look at cars that had had the re-build work already done. It had the work done at 6000 miles amd I am now up to 25000 miles. So without wishing to tempt fate (please God be nice to me
) thats another 19000 mile where everything has been ok.
I NEVER use high rev's until the engine is warm, I check the oil after every drive, I get it serviced on time and by a TVR dealer. This is my only car and I keep hoping that if I give her lots of TLC she'll keep looking after me - please!
Eve
I bought my Tuscan at the beginning of this year and would only look at cars that had had the re-build work already done. It had the work done at 6000 miles amd I am now up to 25000 miles. So without wishing to tempt fate (please God be nice to me
) thats another 19000 mile where everything has been ok. I NEVER use high rev's until the engine is warm, I check the oil after every drive, I get it serviced on time and by a TVR dealer. This is my only car and I keep hoping that if I give her lots of TLC she'll keep looking after me - please!
Eve
evostick said:
I NEVER use high rev's until the engine is warm
In these days of ECUs and sensors everywhere how hard would it be to limit the max revs on a sliding scale with temperature? Such a simple fix, would not cost a fortune either. That way over enthusiastic deadheads who have money but no feel for a car would not damage the engines creating even more problems.
Not exactly rocket science is it.
Just as an aside....the statement in the other recent Speed 6 post that suggested the cause of the 'problems' was known and had potentially been fixed.....is there any elaboration on that at all?
Seeing the other thread got locked before the answer ever came to light, would those 'in the know' like to enlighten the rest of us here instead?
Seeing the other thread got locked before the answer ever came to light, would those 'in the know' like to enlighten the rest of us here instead?
The Speed 6 engine is f
g outstanding boy! MarkoTVR said:
would those 'in the know' like to enlighten the rest of us here instead?
The person that posted that statement went suspiciously quiet when asked to back it up with some facts.
His final word on the subject was:
“Another Speed 6 thread that is going nowhere.
A comprehensive survey was conducted and I suggest that you search for it on the forums to draw your own conclusions.”
I suppose if you post something you cannot back up then it's true, the thread will go nowhere.
I think we can all “draw our own conclusions” about how much he really knows. No doubt there are people out there that know more about this subject but it’s not him.
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