Friday 21st February 2014

Megane RS vs. Civic Type R: Time For Coffee?

It's the duel that will dominate discussion in 2014; here's what happened last time round

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As Dale has suggested, Renaultsport Megane vs. Honda Civic Type R will be a huge track battle at the Nurburgring this year. Whether lap times are still relevant is a whole other debate entirely but it promises to be quite a contest for FWD supremacy. We'll gloss over not being able to drive a Civic until 2015 for now...

With this in mind, a previous Honda v Renault shoot out seemed in order and this Best Motoring vid is the, erm, best. Furthermore, this is no regular Type R against Megane RS race; it's the ultimate Megane versus the fastest Civic, R26.R taking on the FD2 saloon. There's also a Mini JCW along for the ride but watching from the back by the end of the first lap.

Of course we won't give the conclusion away here but it's a fascinating to view the two different approaches to FWD performance. The turbocharged Megane whooshes its way around Tsukuba as the Civic screams its way round to 9,000rpm. It's a close run thing though...

Watch it here

 

[Matt Bird]

Damn, just realised the Mugen RR is probably the ultimate Civic. Comparison still stands I think (hope!).


Matt

[Ali_T]

Megane must be fast. Tsuchiya-san didn't win!

[theboyrob]

Surely the megane has fair bit more power than the Civic?

The megane just sounds dull, the civic up to 9000rpm is much more fun!

[dukebox9reg]

The Mini Driver is doing some crazy lines. You cant say, 'oh the Megane has more power so was going to win'. Honda decided that the Civic Type R with 200-220 bhp was its offer to the hot hatch crowd(saloon world).

So its a completely fair comparison between those 2, not sure why the mini is in there though as from the class down. Suppose similar power output to the Civic though. Thing is though its a very tight short track so the extra bit of power wouldn't make as much difference as brakes and traction.

The Megane would leave the Civic far behind on an open track like Thruxton or 'The Ring'

Surely a Seat Cupra R would have been a better car to throw into the mix or an Astra VXR Nurburg as the 3rd car.

How does the New Megane RS compare against the FN2 Type R Mugen?

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 11:45

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 11:47

[GregK2]

theboyrob said:

Surely the megane has fair bit more power than the Civic?

The megane just sounds dull, the civic up to 9000rpm is much more fun!

Could be wrong but i believe Civic is: 1,270kg 225bhp 159 lb·f
Megane is 1345 kg 226 bhp 229 lb-ft

[sideways man]

Those Best videos really are pretty good,they've had some epic battles over the years! Just wish the did subtitles,as I'm too lazy to learn japanese

[vz-r_dave]

dukebox9reg said:

The Mini Driver is doing some crazy lines. You cant say, 'oh the Megane has more power so was going to win'. Honda decided that the Civic Type R with 200-220 bhp was its offer to the hot hatch crowd(saloon world).

So its a completely fair comparison between those 2, not sure why the mini is in there though as from the class down. Suppose similar power output to the Civic though. Thing is though its a very tight short track so the extra bit of power wouldn't make as much difference as brakes and traction.

The Megane would leave the Civic far behind on an open track like Thruxton or 'The Ring'

Surely a Seat Cupra R would have been a better car to throw into the mix or an Astra VXR Nurburg as the 3rd car.

How does the New Megane RS compare against the FN2 Type R Mugen?

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 11:45

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 11:47

'The Megane would leave the Civic far behind on an open track like Thruxton or 'The Ring'

How is it you know the Renault would be far quicker on a more open track?

'So its a completely fair comparison between those 2, not sure why the mini is in there though as from the class down'

And why is the JWC an unfair comparison, that is what Mini offered at the time in that segment and I sure was of simaler cost?

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 21st February 12:07

[dukebox9reg]

Its the Class down. So at the time it would have been against Polo GTI, Fiesta ST, Clio 197/200! etc.

Civic and Megane are in the same class and both at the top end of each particular model.

Fastest laps has the Civic quicker round this circuit but as per my previous comment, on a more open track....

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/honda_civic_typ...

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 12:20

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 12:21

[Tickle]

Massive fan of Honda Type 'R's and Renaultsport, I have owned two of each. Not biased to either.


I wonder what difference the lap times would be if the FD2 was running R888's like the R26.r ?

[Studio117]

I know the megane is very capable car as the video shows, but like at the turbocharged hot hatches the engines sound really crap.

All out of puff at 6 grand. Booooring.

[vz-r_dave]

dukebox9reg said:

Its the Class down. So at the time it would have been against Polo GTI, Fiesta ST, Clio 197/200! etc.

Civic and Megane are in the same class and both at the top end of each particular model.

Fastest laps has the Civic quicker round this circuit but as per my previous comment, on a more open track....

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/honda_civic_typ...

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 12:20

Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 21st February 12:21

They should give that comparison another go but this time providing the Civic with the same semi slick tyres (R888's) of the r26r... Not saying it will be quicker but certainly not 2-3 seconds slower and we both know what difference a tyre can make!

As for the Mini I disagree, what defines it as a class down? Cost, it costs a fair amount more than those you mention. Performance, well the Clio comes close but again costs a lot less I believe. It's in the middle on it's own if anyting I guess.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 21st February 12:44

[Roma101]

R26.R was/is about 1,235 kg I think. That was probably without a driver though.

[dukebox9reg]

vz-r_dave said:

They should give that comparison another go but this time providing the Civic with the same semi slick tyres (R888's) of the r26r... Not saying it will be quicker but certainly not 2-3 seconds slower and we both know what difference a tyre can make!

As for the Mini I disagree, what defines it as a class down? Cost, it costs a fair amount more than those you mention. Performance, well the Clio comes close but again costs a lot less I believe. It's in the middle on it's own if anyting I guess.

Edited by vz-r_dave on Friday 21st February 12:44

The class of car is not defined by its cost but by its size. Megane/Golf/Focus/Civic/Leon etc are all C class and the Fiesta/Polo/Clio/Mini/Corsa etc are a size smaller.

A limited edition Fiat 500 (595 or whatever it is) costs what the best part of 40k. It it a rival for the Ford Focus RS500, erm no.

[vz-r_dave]

dukebox9reg said:

The class of car is not defined by its cost but by its size. Megane/Golf/Focus/Civic/Leon etc are all C class and the Fiesta/Polo/Clio/Mini/Corsa etc are a size smaller.

A limited edition Fiat 500 (595 or whatever it is) costs what the best part of 40k. It it a rival for the Ford Focus RS500, erm no.

So they would have used a Countryman S if it were available at the time? What if the Mini GP was put up against these two? What would your thoughts be then? A fair comparison or not because it's in a different class... I mean size. What is the Mini GP's competitor? The Fiesta ST? A Polo GTI?? Ridiculous discussion but it's Friday

[havoc]

Cheers PH - will look forward to watching that later on.

Can guess the result from the posts...and I'm not surprised.

As already mentioned, the Megane's R888's will make a clear difference (although the std-fit RE070s on the FD2 are "fast road" summer tyres, so would be slightly better than mainstream stuff like ContiSports and Pilot Sports). Also the Megane is half-caged, which will improve body rigidity.

Still, these were the 3 "most hardcore" hot hatches for sale at the time, so the comparison is entirely fair...Honda and Mini chose not to go as far as Renault, with the consequent compromises to track ability. And let's be honest - Best Motoring is as much about entertainment (and the individual drivers) as it is about true pace...

[Tickle]

vz-r_dave said:

dukebox9reg said:

The class of car is not defined by its cost but by its size. Megane/Golf/Focus/Civic/Leon etc are all C class and the Fiesta/Polo/Clio/Mini/Corsa etc are a size smaller.

A limited edition Fiat 500 (595 or whatever it is) costs what the best part of 40k. It it a rival for the Ford Focus RS500, erm no.

So they would have used a Countryman S if it were available at the time? What if the Mini GP was put up against these two? What would your thoughts be then? A fair comparison or not because it's in a different class... I mean size. What is the Mini GP's competitor? The Fiesta ST? A Polo GTI?? Ridiculous discussion but it's Friday

A mini Series 1 GP's main rival was the Clio Trophy.... A class smaller

[SaqibCTR]

I love Best Motoring. If you're fond of standard and tuned Japanese cars, you'll really enjoy Best Motoring and Hot Version.

And I'd have the FD2. Obviously.

[C.A.R.]

dukebox9reg said:

The Megane would leave the Civic far behind on an open track like Thruxton or 'The Ring'

Lies.

Surely a more open track would give the Civic a better run?

The Meg has stickier tyres and a turbocharger, so it takes the corners at a higher speed and is on the power earlier - with the torque to shove it away from the Civic as it comes out of each bend. On a more flowing, open track the Civic would stand a far better chance - as it was the Honda was not far behind...

[vz-r_dave]

Tickle said:

vz-r_dave said:

dukebox9reg said:

The class of car is not defined by its cost but by its size. Megane/Golf/Focus/Civic/Leon etc are all C class and the Fiesta/Polo/Clio/Mini/Corsa etc are a size smaller.

A limited edition Fiat 500 (595 or whatever it is) costs what the best part of 40k. It it a rival for the Ford Focus RS500, erm no.

So they would have used a Countryman S if it were available at the time? What if the Mini GP was put up against these two? What would your thoughts be then? A fair comparison or not because it's in a different class... I mean size. What is the Mini GP's competitor? The Fiesta ST? A Polo GTI?? Ridiculous discussion but it's Friday

A mini Series 1 GP's main rival was the Clio Trophy.... A class smaller

So with that 'Smaller Class' statement the race in this video is unfair because the other cars are 'Bigger'. Got it! ......

[don logan]

Studio117 said:

I know the megane is very capable car as the video shows, but like at the turbocharged hot hatches the engines sound really crap.

All out of puff at 6 grand. Booooring.

You ARE absolutely right about the engine noise BUT you need to hear the sound inside the R26.R even without the Ti exhaust option, it's quite unique!