Alternative to employment tribunal
Discussion
I have a young family member who is an apprentice at a small private ltd company. He is being bullied to the degree he is being 'forced' to leave. His family are considering legal action and asked me if I know anything about this area of law. I know very little so have come here. He's been there fewer than two years which makes an employment tribunal unavailable.
I don't know how thin the "case" is, or how relevant some of the following points are, but from what I'm told I'd assess my workplace as being at risk had an employee been treated like he has.
- He has never been given a contract.
- There is no formal grievance procedure in the company.
- There is one manager who constantly refers to him as "thick b
d" and other such terms for every interaction they have. The effect is the apprentice dare not speak to this manager.
- He is given irrelevant jobs like painting fences and washing private vehicles, which won't help him finish his apprenticeship.
- He has tried to raise this with the MD who shouted and swore at him and said he'll "hate working there from now on".
- Been asked to work on machines in which he isn't experienced or qualified to do, and when this is raised gets verbally abused. Being made to PAT test without being qualified.
There's more of the same, but that's a fair summary. I'm not looking to make a full evidential assessment at the moment (corroboration / other witnesses etc), just get an outline for the alternatives in civil law since employment law is out of the window.
I don't know how thin the "case" is, or how relevant some of the following points are, but from what I'm told I'd assess my workplace as being at risk had an employee been treated like he has.
- He has never been given a contract.
- There is no formal grievance procedure in the company.
- There is one manager who constantly refers to him as "thick b
d" and other such terms for every interaction they have. The effect is the apprentice dare not speak to this manager. - He is given irrelevant jobs like painting fences and washing private vehicles, which won't help him finish his apprenticeship.
- He has tried to raise this with the MD who shouted and swore at him and said he'll "hate working there from now on".
- Been asked to work on machines in which he isn't experienced or qualified to do, and when this is raised gets verbally abused. Being made to PAT test without being qualified.
There's more of the same, but that's a fair summary. I'm not looking to make a full evidential assessment at the moment (corroboration / other witnesses etc), just get an outline for the alternatives in civil law since employment law is out of the window.
Being there under two years doesn't mean in certain circumstances the ET isn't an option.
He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
La Liga said:
I've read that website and called their helpline. They are insistent employment law is irrelevant since it's under 2 years.
That may be rubbish - go to a 'no win no fee' employment solicitor and see what they say. Employers are responsible for making sure bullying doesn't happen - it's also very important there is no grievance procedure.In my experience ACAS can be iffy and I wouldn't say there's not a claim here.
The internet is a great source of info, worth spending some time doing some research.
Have at the ACAS bullying and harassment at work guide.
Given his age and likely salary (scale of resultant damages) be very careful before progressing anthing to do with an ET, especially if he's in a small/incestuous industry as it can make finding work later very difficult (shouldn't be the case but often can be unfortunately).
I can't comment further without knowing more but he needs to try to find something else sharpish I think. Also best trying to exit as amicably as possible so that references (even if a confirmation of employment) can be gained.
I can't comment further without knowing more but he needs to try to find something else sharpish I think. Also best trying to exit as amicably as possible so that references (even if a confirmation of employment) can be gained.
kiethton said:
Given his age and likely salary (scale of resultant damages) be very careful before progressing anthing to do with an ET, especially if he's in a small/incestuous industry as it can make finding work later very difficult (shouldn't be the case but often can be unfortunately).
I can't comment further without knowing more but he needs to try to find something else sharpish I think. Also best trying to exit as amicably as possible so that references (even if a confirmation of employment) can be gained.
Now that's a different issue - further employment in the industry etc.I can't comment further without knowing more but he needs to try to find something else sharpish I think. Also best trying to exit as amicably as possible so that references (even if a confirmation of employment) can be gained.
However, employers have a responsibility and it appears his need to be told what's what.
It may be that the employer is vicariously liable for harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act. The court can award damages based upon the harassment suffered, as well as any quantifiable losses. It may be that your friend could find a lawyer willing to take it on a CFA, though unless it had a high chance of success you'd have to be lucky.
Leaving that employer behind and chalking it up to experience will likely be the most productive route for him personally, though of course that's unlikely to change the employer's behaviour towards other employees in the future.
Leaving that employer behind and chalking it up to experience will likely be the most productive route for him personally, though of course that's unlikely to change the employer's behaviour towards other employees in the future.
HoHoHo said:
Being there under two years doesn't mean in certain circumstances the ET isn't an option.
He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
What was the start date at the company?He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
Taking professional advice is a good idea. PM me for a freebie. As for "almost certainly" and "will be awarded damages", I suggest that you disregard that well intentioned but uninformed advice. The penultimate sentence in the quoted post is accurate.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 21st February 21:31
Breadvan72 said:
HoHoHo said:
Being there under two years doesn't mean in certain circumstances the ET isn't an option.
He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
What was the start date at the company?He needs to take professional advice and fast, he almost certainly can claim constructive dismissal and he will be awarded damages.
Note, the ET will take months and will be an eye opener, it depends how strong he is.
Taking professional advuce is a good idea. PM me for a freebie. As for "almost certainly" and "will be awarded damages", I suggest that you disregard that well intentioned but uninformed advice. The penultimate sentence in the quoted post is accurate.
As I'm sure you know, tribunals are a law unto themselves, disregarding the rules.
And that's a fact
Tribunals can be erratic and not always predictable. This is why saying things like "will be awarded damages" is unwise, especially when the facts are not known.
Re some other comments above, Employment tribunals form part of the civil side of the legal system. Employment law is part of civil law, and is not distinct from what the Tribunals deal with.
As for ACAS, by the way, taking advice from them is usually a waste of time. It appears that it has been in this case.
Re some other comments above, Employment tribunals form part of the civil side of the legal system. Employment law is part of civil law, and is not distinct from what the Tribunals deal with.
As for ACAS, by the way, taking advice from them is usually a waste of time. It appears that it has been in this case.
Breadvan72 said:
As for ACAS, by the way, taking advice from them is usually a waste of time. It appears that it has been in this case.
This is what really gets to me. I agree entirely but it really shouldn't be that way and there is a real need for somewhere people can go to and get solid advice without having to resort to paying for legal advice, union membership etc. La Liga said:
I've disregarded the certainty aspect, but appreciate the input non-the-less.
BV, will PM, thanks for the offer.
Just to add, BV advice is well worth taking and has helped many PHers over the years. Tetchy and short attention span, plus he can be tetchy and have a short attention span.BV, will PM, thanks for the offer.
Vaud said:
Just to add, BV advice is well worth taking and has helped many PHers over the years. Tetchy and short attention span, plus he can be tetchy and have a short attention span.
BV is a barrister who works, at least some of the time, in employment law. That makes him extremely irritating in that he comes in here knowing what he is talking about and commenting in an informed way, something that frankly should be banned on Internet forums/fora.Siscar said:
BV is a barrister who works, at least some of the time, in employment law. That makes him extremely irritating in that he comes in here knowing what he is talking about and commenting in an informed way, something that frankly should be banned on Internet forums/fora.
Quite right. He bases far too much on the real world of being a barista and not enough from "bloke said down pub" Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff