Are they all like this??
Discussion
Got to drive an Orange Griff yesterday while demonstrating some drifting techniques at Brunters, blimey the thing takes your hands off when it tries to correct from opposite lock. 
Is this normal? are they all like it?, seemed to me to have way too much offset & or castor & major geometry issues going on. The load on the steering increased massively with turn in, which would mean the return to neutral had a very viscious action. Note the load was not related to tyre loading either as you could induce understeer at peak steering wheel load, which reamined high even with understeer
So what I mean is steering load is NOT related to TYRE LOADING but steering angle, which make me think dodgy castor settings.
Any techies able to enlighten me please
>>> Edited by cptsideways on Sunday 21st November 16:01
Is this normal? are they all like it?, seemed to me to have way too much offset & or castor & major geometry issues going on. The load on the steering increased massively with turn in, which would mean the return to neutral had a very viscious action. Note the load was not related to tyre loading either as you could induce understeer at peak steering wheel load, which reamined high even with understeer
So what I mean is steering load is NOT related to TYRE LOADING but steering angle, which make me think dodgy castor settings.
Any techies able to enlighten me please
>>> Edited by cptsideways on Sunday 21st November 16:01
Great to see an an question just that bit different to the usual stuff, thanks for posting it 
So far as the drifting is concerned I regret to admit that the nearest I get to drifting nowadays would be to sleep in my armchair after a few
On a serious note I hope someone can provide a sensible reply
So far as the drifting is concerned I regret to admit that the nearest I get to drifting nowadays would be to sleep in my armchair after a few
On a serious note I hope someone can provide a sensible reply
Is my Griff, no PAS, and going into TVR Power tomorrow for service. Geometry was going to be checked anyway. I will take your message Declan and show them. Cptsideways was amazing in his Mazda, I was crap. However with the Griff I gave up with all that sideways stuff, and went back to the track, much easier!
I feel the same captain sideways. I think PAS would help a great deal. The castor angle just feels wrong and weights up the steering too much to prevent any quick wheel twirling.
Doesn't stop me enjoying my Griff but I think it seriously limits its drifting capabilities.
If anyone has the answer/solution to this i'd be interested to hear it to.
Doesn't stop me enjoying my Griff but I think it seriously limits its drifting capabilities.
If anyone has the answer/solution to this i'd be interested to hear it to.
I'm glad someone else has this issue. My steering is also excessively heavy under reasonably high speed cornering, I first noticed it while on the track at work last year. My first thought's were to fit PAS, which I still have to do as I've got all the bits. I've discussed the problem with some of the chassis design engineers at work and they couldn't see any real problem with the car, other than, the bushes looking pretty tired (11 years old) and the ride height at the front looked quite low for a car with standard suspension. I also checked the column intermediate shaft and steering geometery but this all seemed OK. So, I am currently half way through replacing all the bushes, refurbing the wishbones and fitting Nitrons. Last Friday whilst I was about to have a couple of small pin holes welded on the front lower wishbones, my friend noticed that one of them looked bent. Under closer examination and measurement, the offside wishbone was found to be 10mm out in the area of the ball joint. This would have the effect of increasing the castor angle on that particular side. The damage to the wishbone could've been caused by kerbing or someone possibly jacking the car up on the wishbone. I'm hoping that this is the cause of the problem and maybe, this combined with a generally worn suspension was sufficient to increase the loads.
To answer another question, although the castor is set by the factory, there is a spacer piece that sits between the upper balljoint and upper wishbone. It would be possible, if you really knew what you were doing, to adjust the castor by putting in a different sized spacer.
Hope this helps.
To answer another question, although the castor is set by the factory, there is a spacer piece that sits between the upper balljoint and upper wishbone. It would be possible, if you really knew what you were doing, to adjust the castor by putting in a different sized spacer.
Hope this helps.
GarryM said:
You're probably way ahead of me, but one of the wishbones has a bend/dent in it which is part of the design - at least that's what I was told when I pointed it out to my dealer! Of course if it is part of the design it should still have the same dimensions as the other side...
I think you're refering to the dink that's on the upper front wishbone, that's there to clear the steering column intermediate shaft.
bjwoods said:
It's designed to grip not to drift....
It has a very short wheel base, lots of torque, relatively light weight, wide tyres....
Again not conducive to drifting...
B
Doesn't explain steering loading up as described though. Yes mine has power steering, maybe this masks problems to an extent.
Some garages have an electronic geometry set-up system that measures all 4 wheels at once and displays the results on a screen. As an ajustment is made, you can actually watch the castor changing, I was amazed how interdependant it all is. I suppose on a system like this you could experiment with Wixer's spacers, that's if the castor is still too great when the rest of the geometry is within tolerances, of course.
wixer said:
You're probably way ahead of me, but one of the wishbones has a bend/dent in it which is part of the design - at least that's what I was told when I pointed it out to my dealer!
I think you're refering to the dink that's on the upper front wishbone, that's there to clear the steering column intermediate shaft.
Err, yes that'll be it then! Another useful contribution by me
bjwoods said:
It's designed to grip not to drift....
It has a very short wheel base, lots of torque, relatively light weight, wide tyres....
Again not conducive to drifting...
B
Quite right, but having driven several other TVR's this came across as being a fault of the cars set up or geometry as explained. I certainly would'nt want to drive that on the road like that........
Saying that Deeens Chim drift's quite nicely
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