porsche brand strength
Discussion
Back in 1999 I purchased my first Porsche 996 c2 a boyhood dream since then 2 gt3's 996 997,two turbos 996 3 boxsters 986 and 987 .purchased and ownership over 15 years, at first the brand had strength and this was carried by strong residuals across the range in the earlier years.
Now the brand has suffered from high retail prices coupled with poor residuals, however there are some exception granted gt3 for one.
So how can a 991 c2 loose a huge % of its value and still be considered a strong brand.
For me Porsche has become too vanilla such a shame and not good value for money.
The strong brand and value for money has to be the Nissan GTR great spec ,strong heritage, good residuals, and a very special driving experience.
your thoughts ?????
Now the brand has suffered from high retail prices coupled with poor residuals, however there are some exception granted gt3 for one.
So how can a 991 c2 loose a huge % of its value and still be considered a strong brand.
For me Porsche has become too vanilla such a shame and not good value for money.
The strong brand and value for money has to be the Nissan GTR great spec ,strong heritage, good residuals, and a very special driving experience.
your thoughts ?????
David, I have seriously considered a Nissan previously, the Nissan's don't have great residuals either, the cars are not that customisable and the exterior colour choices are very poor.
In terms of road drive, the GT-R suffers from exactly the same problem as the 991 Turbo does now, it is simply to big and too fast for UK roads. Is the drive special? Well if you are willing to risk prison, I suppose the answer is definitely but I would wager many enthusiasts would trade a little speed for a little more character, that goes for the 991 Turbo and GT-R.
In terms of track drive, I would never dream of tracking a GT-R, Porsches are designed to run at the track reliably from the get-go and I would not break into a cold sweat like I would with a GT-R.
Maybe the next GT-R will match desirability with the engineering, the GT-R Nismo is very close to doing that but the car has come too late in the model's cycle.
In terms of road drive, the GT-R suffers from exactly the same problem as the 991 Turbo does now, it is simply to big and too fast for UK roads. Is the drive special? Well if you are willing to risk prison, I suppose the answer is definitely but I would wager many enthusiasts would trade a little speed for a little more character, that goes for the 991 Turbo and GT-R.
In terms of track drive, I would never dream of tracking a GT-R, Porsches are designed to run at the track reliably from the get-go and I would not break into a cold sweat like I would with a GT-R.
Maybe the next GT-R will match desirability with the engineering, the GT-R Nismo is very close to doing that but the car has come too late in the model's cycle.
Its "flagship" car going up in flames isn't going to strengthen its position nor was the way Porsche allocated and communicated build slots in the 1st place.
I guess what goes round comes round and its come back to bite them in the bum.
Feel sorry for proud new GT3 owners caught up in the mess and kind of relieved I got bumped down the pecking order now. At least I can take a view on whether I take the car or not now and mess them around just like they did to me
I guess what goes round comes round and its come back to bite them in the bum.
Feel sorry for proud new GT3 owners caught up in the mess and kind of relieved I got bumped down the pecking order now. At least I can take a view on whether I take the car or not now and mess them around just like they did to me
I still believe that Porsche still has a very strong brand. I am not sure that poorer residuals is relevant.
The sales continue to grow despite some fairly hefty pricing. Only a strong brand can support that.
The return to Le Mans with an LMP1 car this year is VERY important. You can only live on past glories for so long.
The Macan and Cayenne would otherwise soon fade.
The sales continue to grow despite some fairly hefty pricing. Only a strong brand can support that.
The return to Le Mans with an LMP1 car this year is VERY important. You can only live on past glories for so long.
The Macan and Cayenne would otherwise soon fade.
I am not quite sure why you use brand so much in your opening post.
Aston Martin regularly features as one of the world's coolest brands:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-242...
Its products still depreciate. Same for Apple.
I think many car companies would give their right arm for Porsche business success. The flaming GT3s is a mere blip.
Aston Martin regularly features as one of the world's coolest brands:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-242...
Its products still depreciate. Same for Apple.
I think many car companies would give their right arm for Porsche business success. The flaming GT3s is a mere blip.
I still think there's a limit to how much damage a brand can take.......
With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 26th February 14:22
davidbht said:
The strong brand and value for money has to be the Nissan GTR great spec ,strong heritage, good residuals, and a very special driving experience.
I couldn't disagree with you more, Nissan is not a premium brand at all. And for me the GTR, while a great machine, is not in the same league as any Porsche. Yes it's blisteringly fast but it is designed to appeal to the Subaru crowd and has the finesse of footballer. I accept that it appears to be good value for money, in that at £80k it will outperform cars costing twice as much. But, it's a Nissan and with that you get Nissan levels of service. I looked at one a few months ago while also looking at 911 and R8. Both Porsche and Audi gave me their cars for 2 to 3 days to decide which I wanted. Nissan, however offered me a 30 min test drive and "maybe" an extended escorted drive (of an hour), if I was serious. I didn't bother calling them back.... My point is you get what you pay for, and the when looking at brand power Nissan just doesn't move in the same circles as Porsche, (based on my opinion and not backed up by any real evidence).
To my mind, Porsche is the "Apple" of car makers.
Ian_UK1 said:
I still think there's a limit to how much damage a brand can take.......
With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
This. The brand is just enjoying a purple patch right now where Joe Public's perception hasn't caught up with the realities listed above. Its being run by accountants who wont acknowledge previous design faults and so are reaping the benefits of a solid brand reputation without the expense needed to retain it. This will not last (think Merc mid 90's).With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 26th February 14:22
Residuals have gone down the pan because to all enthusiasts that know better (us), most modern Porsche's outside of warranty are ticking time bombs.
dry664 said:
Ian_UK1 said:
I still think there's a limit to how much damage a brand can take.......
With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
This. The brand is just enjoying a purple patch right now where Joe Public's perception hasn't caught up with the realities listed above. Its being run by accountants who wont acknowledge previous design faults and so are reaping the benefits of a solid brand reputation without the expense needed to retain it. This will not last (think Merc mid 90's).With all due respect to Cayenne/Macan owners, this type of vehicle doesn't strengthen the brand, it just labels Porsche as a mass-market manufacturer.
Self-lunching M96/7 engines, despite Porsche's denials, are now a generally-known issue across the Internet and have crucified Porsche's former 'bulletproof' reputation.
Pictures in the papers and on the media of flagship cars burning at the side of the road following detonation of their engines (just like M96/7 in the eyes of the public) won't be forgotten that quickly by people at large and certainly not by owners/potential owners of the model - Porsche's formerly-loyal CUSTOMERS.
Porsche's legendary lack of customer care further turns-away existing customers and potential new purchasers (as do short warranties and Porsche ducking-out of warranty claims due to BS like over-rev readouts).
Unfortunate choices with respect to the latest generation of sports cars have alienated another percentage of the once-loyal customer base too (dead steering, over-light brakes etc.). Now we can add to that Porsche's decision to drop it's expensive, race-derived Mezger engine for the cheap, exploding & incendiary DFI lump (how the media might see it, not necessarily me)!
Finally, the competition are making ever-better cars these days, Porsche's just aren't THAT much better any more.
....... and we wonder why things aren't as they were and why residuals are fooked? The brand's barely breathing, not barely scarred!
All just IMHO, of course and only applies to the UK. I'm sure Porsche Far East / Middle East / Americas / Russia etc. have a very different attitude (and a very different kind of customer).
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 26th February 14:22
Residuals have gone down the pan because to all enthusiasts that know better (us), most modern Porsche's outside of warranty are ticking time bombs.
findtomdotcom said:
To my mind, Porsche is the "Apple" of car makers.
I dont get that feeling at all. As a youngster I lusted after a 911 so in later life I bought one. Initially it ticked all the boxes. The dealings with Porsche have been a massive let down though. They take 7 to 10 days to do a service at the OPC whilst literally taking the piss with their charges (expired tires, over rev inspections four or five years after they occurred, crap batteries etc etc). I should be their target market but I simply can't be bothered with the hassle, I'd rather spend relative peanuts on a well equipped BMW and pocket the change.So I think they have a strong brand at the moment but I don't see that continuing.
mollytherocker said:
7 to 10 days to complete a service? Que?
This time it was actually the checks to extend the warranty. Last time was the service. A cool 7 to 10 days each time.Nothing particularly needed doing. I think they just like having a few customers cars kicking around so they seem busy.
NorthDave said:
I dont get that feeling at all. As a youngster I lusted after a 911 so in later life I bought one. Initially it ticked all the boxes. The dealings with Porsche have been a massive let down though. They take 7 to 10 days to do a service at the OPC whilst literally taking the piss with their charges (expired tires, over rev inspections four or five years after they occurred, crap batteries etc etc). I should be their target market but I simply can't be bothered with the hassle, I'd rather spend relative peanuts on a well equipped BMW and pocket the change.
So I think they have a strong brand at the moment but I don't see that continuing.
I disagree, whilst the 991 GT3, is a big xxxx off, its a blip, look at the new Macann, its made just about every other small SUV, obsolete over night,So I think they have a strong brand at the moment but I don't see that continuing.
I can see this brand going from strength to strength......Porsche are going like a stream train in other markets,
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