used car purchase... with a difference.
Discussion
OK. So, there are lots of threads with I bought x y or z and a b or c doesn't work/stopped working blah blah blah.... SOGA, reject it, blah blah blah.
My question, as a dealer is. What do you the public deem is acceptable as a fault on a used car? obviously there are huge variables on all aspects of it, but for the sake of this, lets take an 08 focus with lets say 35000 on it up for £4995. Now this car new had a list price of about £16000 new and ford washed their hands of any issues 3 years ago. so, you buy the car with a new mot and off you go, with cars being so complex these days and lots to go wrong, but not necessarily make the car unusable, what would you expect to be under warranty? obviously the car has lost a huge amount over new price and this happens for a reason, used cars are thought of as a "risk" over a new one because of this, yet ime is doesn't seem to matter what happens, joe public expect it not to be their fault, for as long as they think they can get away with it, fair enough if you don't ask you don't get, its human nature.
so, as this is totally hypothetical and no one is going to "not get warranty work done" for admitting they think it is an acceptable fault or issue, lets hear them.....
My question, as a dealer is. What do you the public deem is acceptable as a fault on a used car? obviously there are huge variables on all aspects of it, but for the sake of this, lets take an 08 focus with lets say 35000 on it up for £4995. Now this car new had a list price of about £16000 new and ford washed their hands of any issues 3 years ago. so, you buy the car with a new mot and off you go, with cars being so complex these days and lots to go wrong, but not necessarily make the car unusable, what would you expect to be under warranty? obviously the car has lost a huge amount over new price and this happens for a reason, used cars are thought of as a "risk" over a new one because of this, yet ime is doesn't seem to matter what happens, joe public expect it not to be their fault, for as long as they think they can get away with it, fair enough if you don't ask you don't get, its human nature.
so, as this is totally hypothetical and no one is going to "not get warranty work done" for admitting they think it is an acceptable fault or issue, lets hear them.....
Edited by leefee on Wednesday 26th February 15:37
leefee said:
what would you expect to be under warranty?
Depends what you mean by "warranty" really. Previous car to my current one had a split in a rear door seal which I hadn't noticed and the thermostat wasn't working properly so the car never got warm and one of the rear belts didnt retract properly. I bought the car in Summer so with it being dry and warm didn't notice for a couple of months but they fixed them for me FOC.Other than that, major mechanical stuff really I'd expect sorted within a reasonable period of time. If the glovebox was rattling for example, I wouldn't expect that to be covered.
As someone who's planning on going looking for 07/08 Focii in the £5k range for the Mrs this weekend...
I'd say if something mechanical goes wrong in the first few weeks there's a good chance there's an underlying problem and the dealer/MoT should have spotted it, but there's a fair few trivial things I could fix myself at home that I wouldn't bother with.
Got any examples of common issues with Focus that I cancheck for when we go shopping respond to individually 
I'd say if something mechanical goes wrong in the first few weeks there's a good chance there's an underlying problem and the dealer/MoT should have spotted it, but there's a fair few trivial things I could fix myself at home that I wouldn't bother with.
Got any examples of common issues with Focus that I can
I guess the thread wont really work without the answers giving the car/age and price.
but im guessing you were impressed with the service you received? I tend to put myself in the complainers shoes, not easy when you are trade, but, I cant imagine buying a used car and going back because a door seal was split, I guess again it comes down to price paid and age of car.
but im guessing you were impressed with the service you received? I tend to put myself in the complainers shoes, not easy when you are trade, but, I cant imagine buying a used car and going back because a door seal was split, I guess again it comes down to price paid and age of car.
RizzoTheRat said:
As someone who's planning on going looking for 07/08 Focii in the £5k range for the Mrs this weekend...
I'd say if something mechanical goes wrong in the first few weeks there's a good chance there's an underlying problem and the dealer/MoT should have spotted it, but there's a fair few trivial things I could fix myself at home that I wouldn't bother with.
Got any examples of common issues with Focus that I cancheck for when we go shopping respond to individually
That is the type of thing I would expect. I rate the foci, sell loads, and they give very few problems, (probably not the best example car for this thread) I personally would avoid a diesel. check for lack of paint on the sills and bottom of rear arch, higher spec ones with traction control can have issues, check the light comes on and goes off when you start it. I'd say if something mechanical goes wrong in the first few weeks there's a good chance there's an underlying problem and the dealer/MoT should have spotted it, but there's a fair few trivial things I could fix myself at home that I wouldn't bother with.
Got any examples of common issues with Focus that I can
Anything mechanical that i would not be able to spot on an initial inspection of the car should be covered so that would be engine, 'box, diff etc. a broken cup holder for example should not be covered. Regardless of how old the car is, if it is bought from a genuine dealer and something major fails within a short space of time i would expect the dealer to sort this for me. This is one of the reasons many people use a dealer rather than buying off a private seller. Customers feel that because they are paying a bit over the odds compared to what they would pay for a privately bought car or through the auctions (you do have to make a profit, we all understand this) then they should have that security blanket known also as customer service. The car may be a bargain when you compare it to the original retail value but if it turns out to be not fit for purpose then i believe the dealer should sort it either through the warranty they sold with the car or as a good will gesture. £3000 of someones hard earned is still not a small amount of folding money. especially if they need to spend another £XXX to end up with the car they thought they were buying in the first place
I would like to turn the question round to you, as a dealer of used vehicles. if you were a customer who bought a used car, what do you think you would be happy to accept if the car you had just bought for £XXXX developed a problem?
I would like to turn the question round to you, as a dealer of used vehicles. if you were a customer who bought a used car, what do you think you would be happy to accept if the car you had just bought for £XXXX developed a problem?
whilst I agree the whatever £ someone spends is a lot of money to them, it has to be on a sliding scale age and price wise to work.
my general thoughts are that the engine and gearbox clutch etc all should be good, we tend to re mot most independently before they go out, this picks up on worn wear and tear items, brakes/bearings etc.
However, if two or three months down the line, lets say the eml light comes on, the car is still running fine, no symptoms, but the light is on, this is feel should be down to the owner of the car to fix or at least contribute to if they want. it amazes me how many people are happy to drive some absolute crap for years and years if its going to cost them money, but if there is a chance of someone else paying for it, its a big deal.
I am fortunate we dont get many issues, but as we now do lots more, obviously we get a few more issues, and try to resolve them in a fair way, 99% of the time this is easy. just occasionally it goes a bit pear shaped.
my general thoughts are that the engine and gearbox clutch etc all should be good, we tend to re mot most independently before they go out, this picks up on worn wear and tear items, brakes/bearings etc.
However, if two or three months down the line, lets say the eml light comes on, the car is still running fine, no symptoms, but the light is on, this is feel should be down to the owner of the car to fix or at least contribute to if they want. it amazes me how many people are happy to drive some absolute crap for years and years if its going to cost them money, but if there is a chance of someone else paying for it, its a big deal.
I am fortunate we dont get many issues, but as we now do lots more, obviously we get a few more issues, and try to resolve them in a fair way, 99% of the time this is easy. just occasionally it goes a bit pear shaped.
I predict a lot of use of the word "major", what is classed as major is what matters, this will depend on who is paying for it
I may get shot down for this comment, but I think some people make the mistake of buying something used, and spending every penny buying it, which leaves nothing for any issues that crop up, this then influences what they deem "major" when something goes wrong. This isnt me trying to get another dealers are t
ts thread going, I just thought it might be interesting.
Putting my "private man" head on, if I had £5000 to my name, I would NOT go and spend all of it on a complex piece of kit that the manufacturer stopped being responsible for 3 years ago.
I may get shot down for this comment, but I think some people make the mistake of buying something used, and spending every penny buying it, which leaves nothing for any issues that crop up, this then influences what they deem "major" when something goes wrong. This isnt me trying to get another dealers are t
ts thread going, I just thought it might be interesting.Putting my "private man" head on, if I had £5000 to my name, I would NOT go and spend all of it on a complex piece of kit that the manufacturer stopped being responsible for 3 years ago.
Just bought an 06 MX5 (PH rules!) from the Mazda main dealer. It was, strangely, a very good price compared to other cars its age and it's lower mileage than any other I've seen for a grand - fifteen hundred quid more, so I'm well pleased.
However, I made every mistake in the book (and as an ex used car dealer/salesman I really should know better) firstly by buying it in the rain! Couldn't be bothered to look underneath or really check over the bodywork as I trusted the dealer (bought quite a few cars from them over the years - always been really good to deal with)and at 28000 miles it was bound to be fine.
When I'd got it and it finally stopped raining, spotted a paint problem at the back where it had been re-painted for some (worrying) reason and done quite badly.
Thought about just sucking it up as my problem but decided to ask... they have just had it in the bodyshop and sorted it out properly, fixed the non retracting drivers seatbelt, waxoyled it underneath for me, all foc, and lent me a car while mine was being done.
In reality, I believe this to be above and beyond what I could have expected. A lesser dealer would have told me to jog on, of that I'm sure. Then again, if it was some other dealer I didn't trust, I would have checked the car properly...
However, I made every mistake in the book (and as an ex used car dealer/salesman I really should know better) firstly by buying it in the rain! Couldn't be bothered to look underneath or really check over the bodywork as I trusted the dealer (bought quite a few cars from them over the years - always been really good to deal with)and at 28000 miles it was bound to be fine.
When I'd got it and it finally stopped raining, spotted a paint problem at the back where it had been re-painted for some (worrying) reason and done quite badly.
Thought about just sucking it up as my problem but decided to ask... they have just had it in the bodyshop and sorted it out properly, fixed the non retracting drivers seatbelt, waxoyled it underneath for me, all foc, and lent me a car while mine was being done.
In reality, I believe this to be above and beyond what I could have expected. A lesser dealer would have told me to jog on, of that I'm sure. Then again, if it was some other dealer I didn't trust, I would have checked the car properly...
leefee said:
However, if two or three months down the line, lets say the eml light comes on, the car is still running fine, no symptoms, but the light is on, this is feel should be down to the owner of the car to fix or at least contribute to if they want. it amazes me how many people are happy to drive some absolute crap for years and years if its going to cost them money, but if there is a chance of someone else paying for it, its a big deal.
Agreed. EML a couple of weeks after I bought it, I'd be looking at the dealer, 3 months after I bought it and I've been unlucky.As someone above said you buy from a dealer for some peace of mind, and to me that's mostly to cover things I might not have spotted when I looked at the car, which usually means it's going to get noticed within a week or two. If it's passed an MoT then its already doing better than the car we're replacing
Out of interest do you offer a warranty on cars you sell, and if so how long?
leefee said:
08 focus with lets say 35000 on it up for £4995. Now this car new had a list price of about £16000 new and ford washed their hands of any issues 3 years ago. so, you buy the car with a new mot and off you go, with cars being so complex these days and lots to go wrong, but not necessarily make the car unusable, what would you expect to be under warranty?
If it developed a knock within a week or so, and it was a drop link or something like that, then I would deal with it. However in your example it has a new MOT, so I would probably act differently in your example (as in, wonder if it's a dodgy MOT and whether other failure stuff has been ignored too). If it developed a gearbox problem within 2-3 months, then I would approach the dealer and see what they said. If the same problem occurred but within a few weeks, then it wouldn't be such a 'see what they say' type of conversation (i.e. I would be expecting some help).
I'm quite reasonable though, and if I buy something with problems I generally take some or most of the blame (unless the seller- dealer or not) has actively tried to hide said issues. That said, a problem of a magnitude to almost write the car off would change my stance (gearbox work, head gasket etc).
We offer our own 3 month 3000mile warranty, everything goes through the workshop and most get a new mot before they leave, unless its just been done, or the punter wants it "as is" he will do it all himself" (I realise this doesn't change his statutory rights)
We do quite a lot of repeat business and value that and are as fair as is reasonable, but the way things on the whole have gone with the internet, loyalty is more a thing of the past. people will search on line, and buy on price, fine when it all works out ok for them. however, when you lose your regular customers and land up with mostly fresh stuff, I predict come time people will have to stop with the goodwill repairs just out of warranty/not warrantable just in order to keep customers, as when they replace they will go where the apparently cheapest one is. This means to compete, dealers have tighter margins and less to spend on non essential warranty issues. I guess its the price that is paid for having a national search available to buy what you want on price.
We do quite a lot of repeat business and value that and are as fair as is reasonable, but the way things on the whole have gone with the internet, loyalty is more a thing of the past. people will search on line, and buy on price, fine when it all works out ok for them. however, when you lose your regular customers and land up with mostly fresh stuff, I predict come time people will have to stop with the goodwill repairs just out of warranty/not warrantable just in order to keep customers, as when they replace they will go where the apparently cheapest one is. This means to compete, dealers have tighter margins and less to spend on non essential warranty issues. I guess its the price that is paid for having a national search available to buy what you want on price.
RizzoTheRat said:
leefee said:
However, if two or three months down the line, lets say the eml light comes on, the car is still running fine, no symptoms, but the light is on, this is feel should be down to the owner of the car to fix or at least contribute to if they want. it amazes me how many people are happy to drive some absolute crap for years and years if its going to cost them money, but if there is a chance of someone else paying for it, its a big deal.
Agreed. EML a couple of weeks after I bought it, I'd be looking at the dealer, 3 months after I bought it and I've been unlucky.As someone above said you buy from a dealer for some peace of mind, and to me that's mostly to cover things I might not have spotted when I looked at the car, which usually means it's going to get noticed within a week or two. If it's passed an MoT then its already doing better than the car we're replacing
Out of interest do you offer a warranty on cars you sell, and if so how long?
On your comment about repeat business, if you did the diagnostic thing I mentioned (not the repair, necessarily) then that's the sort of thing that would really boost my view of the dealer. As for going back for my next car then it depends if you have the car I'm looking for (if so, then I would be delighted to look at that one first).
When buying from a dealer I expect him to be an expert. So I'd want him to point out every fault with the car as I assumed he had priced it accordingly. It's down to me then to accept the car with those faults at that price or not.
If I drove the car off the forecourt got up the road and found the air con didn't work I'd be mighty pissed off. He must have known of the fault as he's the expert so I'd want it sorted PDQ or my money back.
IF however the air con packed up 2 weeks later and it would be reasonable to say that no one could have predicted it then I suppose it's my problem.
If I drove the car off the forecourt got up the road and found the air con didn't work I'd be mighty pissed off. He must have known of the fault as he's the expert so I'd want it sorted PDQ or my money back.
IF however the air con packed up 2 weeks later and it would be reasonable to say that no one could have predicted it then I suppose it's my problem.
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