RE: Harris does FWD oversteer: Time For Tea?
Thursday 27th February 2014
Currently our Tell Me I'm Wrong on FWD fun has 163 comments after being live for about seven hours; it's a contentious topic then. Views range from 'never in the history of the interweb has anyone been more wrong' to 'some of the most fun I've ever had has been in FWD cars'. No doubt the debate will continue (or should that be rage?) for a little while longer.
Harris does FWD oversteer: Time For Tea?
Still need convincing of FWD fun? Let Chris and a Clio Cup demonstrate
Here's a little video then to help the discussion along. It's that man Harris in his Driver's Republic days with a Clio 197 Cup at Bedford. It's titled 'Driving Techniques - Lift-off Oversteer'. You can probably see where this is going...
Watch and learn as Chris puts into practice the techniques mentioned in Sean's story about unsettling the car on the brakes and lifting off. Moreover, in full yob mode, there's a bit of handbrake tweakery thrown into the mix.
And before it's mentioned, Chris does admit his preference for RWD oversteer. However, he's firmly against the FWD is Wrong-Wheel Drive, so there.
This isn't a lush, Drive-esque film, hence a press pic rather than an iffy screengrab, but it is entertaining. And if anyone knows why the last few seconds are muted, it would be great to know!
Watch it here
Discussion
I have an 11 plate Cup RS200 as a second car and it's great fun, quick enough to have a hoot on the local back roads out in the shire and it inspires plenty of confidence when you do press on, it's just so "pointy", currently in the process of sorting a few bits and bobs (the brakes, induction/exhaust) in prep to try my hand at track work when the weather gets better.
Yes it's FWD, I know that doesn't carry much weight with many around here, but it's perfect for what I want it for and I have no less fun in it than I did in my S2000. Wouldn't try that on an open road though, I'm an OK driver but nothing more, so I wouldn't chance it, just in case!
EDIT: Was this filmed in 1963?
Yes it's FWD, I know that doesn't carry much weight with many around here, but it's perfect for what I want it for and I have no less fun in it than I did in my S2000. Wouldn't try that on an open road though, I'm an OK driver but nothing more, so I wouldn't chance it, just in case!
EDIT: Was this filmed in 1963?
Edited by Axionknight on Thursday 27th February 18:08
I've just bought a ReanultSport Clio 197 and, as said, it's so pointy and so grippy it continues to amaze me.I have no doubt it will oversteer very easily but it's all new and shiny, and I'm a bit scared to try it on the road.
My first car was a 106 diesel which, in the wet, could lift off oversteer all day long. A raised and stiffened rear end helped it along too
I get a greater sense of satisfaction sliding a FWD car than I do RWD, FWD takes a lot more determination and commitment IME.
My first car was a 106 diesel which, in the wet, could lift off oversteer all day long. A raised and stiffened rear end helped it along too
I get a greater sense of satisfaction sliding a FWD car than I do RWD, FWD takes a lot more determination and commitment IME.
What about left-foot braking then? Takes time to master (and I'm not pretending I ever have), but when you hit the sweet spot it's as good an oversteer tool as any on a front driver.
"Oversteer" is so called because of the cars attitude: If you imagine an axis running longitudinally through the car it would point to a tighter line than intended when the back-end is hanging out - hence potentially over steering. When the front tyres push wide the same axis would point to a wider line than that chosen - hence the car is under steering. The term has nothing to do with the corrective steering inputs necessitated by the cars attitude, as intimated.
"Oversteer" is so called because of the cars attitude: If you imagine an axis running longitudinally through the car it would point to a tighter line than intended when the back-end is hanging out - hence potentially over steering. When the front tyres push wide the same axis would point to a wider line than that chosen - hence the car is under steering. The term has nothing to do with the corrective steering inputs necessitated by the cars attitude, as intimated.
D.no said:
"Oversteer" is so called because of the cars attitude: If you imagine an axis running longitudinally through the car it would point to a tighter line than intended when the back-end is hanging out - hence potentially over steering. When the front tyres push wide the same axis would point to a wider line than that chosen - hence the car is under steering. The term has nothing to do with the corrective steering inputs necessitated by the cars attitude, as intimated.
I believe the SAE definition is along the lines of: oversteer is when the car's yaw response is greater than that demanded by the driver, and understeer when the response is less. A wordy way of explaining some rather long-winded equations that allow you to calculate 'understeer gradient', a useful way of condensing several chassis properties into a single number that will give an indication of the car's limit behaviour.RenesisEvo said:
D.no said:
"Oversteer" is so called because of the cars attitude: If you imagine an axis running longitudinally through the car it would point to a tighter line than intended when the back-end is hanging out - hence potentially over steering. When the front tyres push wide the same axis would point to a wider line than that chosen - hence the car is under steering. The term has nothing to do with the corrective steering inputs necessitated by the cars attitude, as intimated.
I believe the SAE definition is along the lines of: oversteer is when the car's yaw response is greater than that demanded by the driver, and understeer when the response is less. A wordy way of explaining some rather long-winded equations that allow you to calculate 'understeer gradient', a useful way of condensing several chassis properties into a single number that will give an indication of the car's limit behaviour.Buff Mchugelarge said:
A car steers too much for the corner its going round, hence 'Over' steering. That's the way I explained it to my son
Your not wrong ,but understeer rarely happens when the front wheels don't steer enough either ;P - this is what confused me when it was explained to me when i was younger...
It certainly can be done, but it's a BRAVE person who does that on a public highway..... You are on a knife edge and the back of the car could end up WAY in the opposing lane, and a couple of mph too fast you are in an uncontrollable slide and on your way to a biggie. And that is from a FWD oversteer fan who owns a mini, 205 Gti and an AX GT!!!! RWD far safer . And better :-)
Furyblade_Lee said:
It certainly can be done, but it's a BRAVE person who does that on a public highway..... You are on a knife edge and the back of the car could end up WAY in the opposing lane, and a couple of mph too fast you are in an uncontrollable slide and on your way to a biggie. And that is from a FWD oversteer fan who owns a mini, 205 Gti and an AX GT!!!! RWD far safer . And better :-)
Complete rubbish!
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Why?
Because it really isn't that hard!If you can pull those angles Harris does, not just end up with one girlie degree of "attitude", regularly and on an unsighted public road and not crash then I salute you!!!!
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