Main Dealer has screwed my paintwork up. Advice please
Discussion
I need a bit of help and advice with this. Whilst not a Porsche this is the forum I frequent and the princible is the same for any vehicle.
I've been eyeing a very low mileage E46 Alpina B3S cab for a couple of weeks in the classifieds. A present for the missus. Left it a little too long and a main dealer bought the car.
I've spoken at length with the chap that owned it, very nice guy. Really pampered the car and only sold it because it hardly got used. He was big into detailing the car. £300 for the pot of polish and finished 2nd in a BMW concourse event only because he did not have the service book with him. So the cars mint.
Anyway, long story short. I did the deal with the main dealer and bought the car. They did the usual, can we sell you gap insurance and paint protection etc. Not interested. I made it completely clear to both the salesman and his manager that I did not want them to even polish the car. I have had a bad experience with BMW and their so called paint protection system previously. Wash it, hoover it out but that is it.
Yesterday was a nice sunny day. As I left the house for work I have a lovely view of the offside of the car and for want of a better word the car is covered in swirl marks from machine polishing. It is metallic black.
I have a very good mate popping over Saturday to look at the car. I suppose my main three questions are. Have I got a leg to stand on if I send them the bill for the paint correction. Who would you guys recommend around the North London area to sort it out. Or can I just reject the car and get my money back.
Just to clarify, Steve has owned the car for 7 years and it has never been machine polished during his ownership.
Thanks for your help, yours truly pissed of Graeme
I've been eyeing a very low mileage E46 Alpina B3S cab for a couple of weeks in the classifieds. A present for the missus. Left it a little too long and a main dealer bought the car.
I've spoken at length with the chap that owned it, very nice guy. Really pampered the car and only sold it because it hardly got used. He was big into detailing the car. £300 for the pot of polish and finished 2nd in a BMW concourse event only because he did not have the service book with him. So the cars mint.
Anyway, long story short. I did the deal with the main dealer and bought the car. They did the usual, can we sell you gap insurance and paint protection etc. Not interested. I made it completely clear to both the salesman and his manager that I did not want them to even polish the car. I have had a bad experience with BMW and their so called paint protection system previously. Wash it, hoover it out but that is it.
Yesterday was a nice sunny day. As I left the house for work I have a lovely view of the offside of the car and for want of a better word the car is covered in swirl marks from machine polishing. It is metallic black.
I have a very good mate popping over Saturday to look at the car. I suppose my main three questions are. Have I got a leg to stand on if I send them the bill for the paint correction. Who would you guys recommend around the North London area to sort it out. Or can I just reject the car and get my money back.
Just to clarify, Steve has owned the car for 7 years and it has never been machine polished during his ownership.
Thanks for your help, yours truly pissed of Graeme
I would wait till you've calmed down then call them, calmly explain that you're not happy and why and arrange to go down with the car.
The outcome I'd be looking for is an acknowledgement that it was their doing, an apology and agreement to pay for a detailer of your choice to correct it (should only cost £100-200 surely?) and leave it up to them to suggest how they may compensate you for their cock-up, whether that's a free service or whatever (may depend on their costs/incentives to supply certain things). If they've got any sense they'll find that reasonable and hopefully acknowledge that there's definitely improvements they could make to their internal inter-departmental communications.
The outcome I'd be looking for is an acknowledgement that it was their doing, an apology and agreement to pay for a detailer of your choice to correct it (should only cost £100-200 surely?) and leave it up to them to suggest how they may compensate you for their cock-up, whether that's a free service or whatever (may depend on their costs/incentives to supply certain things). If they've got any sense they'll find that reasonable and hopefully acknowledge that there's definitely improvements they could make to their internal inter-departmental communications.
I don't see that you have an argument.
- Basically you are saying in the past, when the car was owned by a previous owner the paintwork was perfect (this statement is true of all cars).
- Now the paintwork it isn't perfect (You will have a conversation along the lines of "Sir, it is a used car, you have to expect some slight imperfections").
- Your argument is that it has gone from perfect to no longer perfect in the space of 2 weeks. They have no need to argue with you. They just tell you it meets the BMW Used Car Excellence standard (or whatever they want to call it) and it probably does.
- You cannot reject a used car because the paint is not like it was when it was new. If you had a problem with the paint when you bought it from them you should have said so at the time. If they polished it since you agreeing to buy it and pick it up, they will tell you that you should have raised this before collection and that it meets their standards. It will also meet any standards of any third parties too and privately they will think you are unreasonable and unrealistic.
I don't see an avenue where they agree with you and give you any compensation. Think you have to chalk it up to experience and get it polished again at your own expense if it bothers you.
Good luck with it though. No harm in trying.
- Basically you are saying in the past, when the car was owned by a previous owner the paintwork was perfect (this statement is true of all cars).
- Now the paintwork it isn't perfect (You will have a conversation along the lines of "Sir, it is a used car, you have to expect some slight imperfections").
- Your argument is that it has gone from perfect to no longer perfect in the space of 2 weeks. They have no need to argue with you. They just tell you it meets the BMW Used Car Excellence standard (or whatever they want to call it) and it probably does.
- You cannot reject a used car because the paint is not like it was when it was new. If you had a problem with the paint when you bought it from them you should have said so at the time. If they polished it since you agreeing to buy it and pick it up, they will tell you that you should have raised this before collection and that it meets their standards. It will also meet any standards of any third parties too and privately they will think you are unreasonable and unrealistic.
I don't see an avenue where they agree with you and give you any compensation. Think you have to chalk it up to experience and get it polished again at your own expense if it bothers you.
Good luck with it though. No harm in trying.
I thought swirl marks could be caused by washing? And you consented to them doing that.
By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
I thought swirl marks could be caused by washing? And you consented to them doing that.
By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
will_968 said:
I don't see that you have an argument.
- Basically you are saying in the past, when the car was owned by a previous owner the paintwork was perfect (this statement is true of all cars).
- Now the paintwork it isn't perfect (You will have a conversation along the lines of "Sir, it is a used car, you have to expect some slight imperfections").
- Your argument is that it has gone from perfect to no longer perfect in the space of 2 weeks. They have no need to argue with you. They just tell you it meets the BMW Used Car Excellence standard (or whatever they want to call it) and it probably does.
- You cannot reject a used car because the paint is not like it was when it was new. If you had a problem with the paint when you bought it from them you should have said so at the time. If they polished it since you agreeing to buy it and pick it up, they will tell you that you should have raised this before collection and that it meets their standards. It will also meet any standards of any third parties too and privately they will think you are unreasonable and unrealistic.
I don't see an avenue where they agree with you and give you any compensation. Think you have to chalk it up to experience and get it polished again at your own expense if it bothers you.
Good luck with it though. No harm in trying.
As above- Basically you are saying in the past, when the car was owned by a previous owner the paintwork was perfect (this statement is true of all cars).
- Now the paintwork it isn't perfect (You will have a conversation along the lines of "Sir, it is a used car, you have to expect some slight imperfections").
- Your argument is that it has gone from perfect to no longer perfect in the space of 2 weeks. They have no need to argue with you. They just tell you it meets the BMW Used Car Excellence standard (or whatever they want to call it) and it probably does.
- You cannot reject a used car because the paint is not like it was when it was new. If you had a problem with the paint when you bought it from them you should have said so at the time. If they polished it since you agreeing to buy it and pick it up, they will tell you that you should have raised this before collection and that it meets their standards. It will also meet any standards of any third parties too and privately they will think you are unreasonable and unrealistic.
I don't see an avenue where they agree with you and give you any compensation. Think you have to chalk it up to experience and get it polished again at your own expense if it bothers you.
Good luck with it though. No harm in trying.
griffter said:
I thought swirl marks could be caused by washing? And you consented to them doing that.
By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
And 'swirl' marks aren't always what they seem to be. Under sunlight random scratches often appear to be swirling, when they actually aren't.By your own implication they are more visible in some light than others. I think you'll have an impossible job to prove (a) the marks were not there when you viewed the car before and (b) that it was the BMW dealer that caused them.
Given the relatively short time the dealer had this car I would suggest the defects are much more likely to be down to the previous owner than the dealer.
Thanks guys.
Just to clarify, the dealership provided me with a walk around video of the car showing in detail the condition of the paint, wheels and interior.
The paint work has been grazed by the inept use of a buffing machine causing vertical lines down the panels. This is not from washing the car.
The car was delivered late last Friday and it was raining. Wednesday was the first dry sunny day where the paint defects became obvious.
thanks Graeme
Just to clarify, the dealership provided me with a walk around video of the car showing in detail the condition of the paint, wheels and interior.
The paint work has been grazed by the inept use of a buffing machine causing vertical lines down the panels. This is not from washing the car.
The car was delivered late last Friday and it was raining. Wednesday was the first dry sunny day where the paint defects became obvious.
thanks Graeme
I'd have thought that the dealer would have "prepped" the car when they bought it in, and not specifically in the period after the sale was agreed and prior to delivery?
It is annoying, and I agree that something should be said, however I'd be inclined to try and get some goodwill towards getting it detailed by someone that knows what they're doing rather than looking for an out and out rejection.
It is annoying, and I agree that something should be said, however I'd be inclined to try and get some goodwill towards getting it detailed by someone that knows what they're doing rather than looking for an out and out rejection.
why reject what is obviously a great car for the sake of a £200 detail? If you were that worried about the paint condition you should have pikced up from the garage in good weather or asked to inspect in the showroom before paying and driving off
no harm in calmly complaining and asking of course
no harm in calmly complaining and asking of course
This guy did my NSX in Ealing a couple of weeks ago. I was very happy with the job and it wasn't expensive. Detail pricing is variable so you're better off talking to him about that.
http://www.theultimatedetail.co.uk/
Technical > Bodywork is probably a better place to ask the question.
http://www.theultimatedetail.co.uk/
Technical > Bodywork is probably a better place to ask the question.
Maybe they removed the £300 wax and revealed what was underneath. Which would mean that a good detail would sort it without needing compound. Or even better have they just used the polisher in vertical strokes and failed to fully buff the finish?
Are the marks in the actual paint/lacquer?
Are the marks in the actual paint/lacquer?
Bennachie said:
'Vertical lines down panels' does not sound like buffer trails
gritty sponge perhaps.........
Nope,it'll be holograms from the machine going up and down the panels vertically. gritty sponge perhaps.........
Could see your case if it was a brand new car but the fact it's not and you let them wash it (which is where 99% of new cars pick up their defects) leaves you with very little grounds for argument in my professional opinion.
As has been said already I think you will struggle to reject the car.
You need to realise the difference between poor paintwork and paintwork which requires detailing to take it to the level you are happy with - some way beyond what would be considered the norm by 99% of car drivers. Will BMW throw some money in the pot to keep you happy ? You can but ask but the paintwork isn't actually faulty by the sound of things.
What you are discussing is the surface finish of the clear laquer. The swirl marks are caused by really tiny scratches in that surface, micro scratches, not like when the fat kid from number 73 runs his Raleigh Grifter down the side of your pride and joy. You need a microscope to see them, but when the sun shines they appear as swirl marks.
Would I be right in thinking that you never saw the car in person when the previous owner had the car?
The correction is relatively simple and can be carried out by any one of a number of people who regularly frequent PH. The top surface needs flating off, most likely with a clay bar type product rather than actual sanding paper and then polishing with a good quality product or series of products. Different detailers will have their own favourite jizz and the discussion as to which is best will take longer than we have left on the planet. It is a time consuming job and the resulting glow will take effort and skill on your part to maintain but it sounds as though the car is totally redeemable. To be fair I would guess that any car you buy will require detailing to get it to a standard you are happy with. You're just a bit miffed because you think this car might have been there when the dealer took it in and ran it through their prep.
Have an ask around for recommendations on here as to possible detailers, have someone pop over then post up pictures showing how delighted you are with their work
Henry
You need to realise the difference between poor paintwork and paintwork which requires detailing to take it to the level you are happy with - some way beyond what would be considered the norm by 99% of car drivers. Will BMW throw some money in the pot to keep you happy ? You can but ask but the paintwork isn't actually faulty by the sound of things.
What you are discussing is the surface finish of the clear laquer. The swirl marks are caused by really tiny scratches in that surface, micro scratches, not like when the fat kid from number 73 runs his Raleigh Grifter down the side of your pride and joy. You need a microscope to see them, but when the sun shines they appear as swirl marks.
Would I be right in thinking that you never saw the car in person when the previous owner had the car?
The correction is relatively simple and can be carried out by any one of a number of people who regularly frequent PH. The top surface needs flating off, most likely with a clay bar type product rather than actual sanding paper and then polishing with a good quality product or series of products. Different detailers will have their own favourite jizz and the discussion as to which is best will take longer than we have left on the planet. It is a time consuming job and the resulting glow will take effort and skill on your part to maintain but it sounds as though the car is totally redeemable. To be fair I would guess that any car you buy will require detailing to get it to a standard you are happy with. You're just a bit miffed because you think this car might have been there when the dealer took it in and ran it through their prep.
Have an ask around for recommendations on here as to possible detailers, have someone pop over then post up pictures showing how delighted you are with their work
Henry
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