Opinions on Total Seal piston rings please

[Else]

Some questions for the tech guys here. I am interested and would like to learn more about them.

Has anybody here used them?

Were they better, same or worse than standard?

Are there any reliability issues?

Can types of oil affect their reliability?

Does it matter which fuel, 95 or 97+ RON?

Thanks

Andy

[phazed]

Interesting to know as I apparently have them fitted to the 5.5.

All I know is that it still likes a bit of oil

[QBee]

phazed said:

Interesting to know as I apparently have them fitted to the 5.5.

All I know is that it still likes a bit of oil , and a lot of fuel

EFA

[phazed]

QBee said:

phazed said:

Interesting to know as I apparently have them fitted to the 5.5.

All I know is that it still likes a bit of oil , and a lot of fuel

EFA

Yep, you're dam tootin!

[macdeb]

I'd be interested in the gaps required also, how much are they reduced by?

[900T-R]

phazed said:

Interesting to know as I apparently have them fitted to the 5.5.

All I know is that it still likes a bit of oil

Same here (4.3)...

[Discopotatoes]

I've got them, but I couldn't tell you wether they are any good as I still use oil and still get blow by,

[Boosted LS1]

You set the gaps as per SAE recommendations for the application. No need to make them smaller or larger. On either the first or second ringland will be fitted a 2 piece ring. One part fits above the other but with the gap ends 180 degrees apart.

Because they seal the bore better (that's the claim anyway) they pull more vacuum in the cylinder when the throttles closed which can increase oil usage. Total Seal suggest pcv modifications if you want to counter that.

I've used TS rings on many engines without issue but it's impossible to find any performance data comparisons. The real percentage gains are probably achieved with forced induction.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 7th March 21:08

[Else]

Boosted LS1 said:

You set the gaps as per SAE recommendations for the application. No need to make them smaller or larger. On either the first or second ringland will be fitted a 2 piece ring. One part fits above the other but with the gap ends 180 degrees apart.

Because they seal the bore better (that's the claim anyway) they pull more vacuum in the cylinder when the throttles closed which can increase oil usage. Total Seal suggest pcv modifications if you want to counter that.

I've used TS rings on many engines without issue but it's impossible to find any performance data comparisons. The real percentage gains are probably achieved with forced induction.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 7th March 21:08

What is pcv?

[Sardonicus]

Positive crankcase ventilation

[phazed]

Interesting.

Both my rocker boxes vent to a catch tank. No vacuum venting them, they are just open to atmosphere, I wonder if that can be improved upon?

[Sardonicus]

Positive crankcase ventilation works great right up to the point it dont anymore i.e can not no longer cope due to major engine changes

[Else]

Sardonicus said:

Positive crankcase ventilation

How is that done? (I could google it but would prefer to keep this thread going)

Andy

[Pupp]

Uses check valves and negative inlet pressure to draw gases from crankcase/rocker box that are then burned off by engine combustion. Great for emissions and convenience, not so good for ensuring good combustion control.
Have seen exhaust driven evacuators too, but not on a tiv. Big yank v8s commonly run them for racing

[Boosted LS1]

phazed said:

Interesting.

Both my rocker boxes vent to a catch tank. No vacuum venting them, they are just open to atmosphere, I wonder if that can be improved upon?

Your pistons will be pressurising the crankcase on the downstroke (or trying to) and pumping air out of the open breathers. Your engine may also be more prone to oil leaks because it's not in a state of vacuum.

[Pupp]

What's your preferred breathing arrangement for FI mike?

[Boosted LS1]

Pupp said:

Uses check valves and negative inlet pressure to draw gases from crankcase/rocker box that are then burned off by engine combustion. Great for emissions and convenience, not so good for ensuring good combustion control.
Have seen exhaust driven evacuators too, but not on a tiv. Big yank v8s commonly run them for racing

Crankcase fumes can be explosive so it's good to dispose of them via combustion. Pcv circuits seem to offer a lot and I doubt there's any real trade off in performance for a road car. Vacuum in the rocker area probably reduces excess oil being sucked down the valve guides to. I used a metal check valve, probably 3/8" or 1/2" diameter iirc.

[Else]

Boosted LS1 said:

Your pistons will be pressurising the crankcase on the downstroke (or trying to) and pumping air out of the open breathers.

Surely the air being displaced by a piston on the downstroke will move into the area left behind by its opposite piston on the up stroke or doesn't it work like that?

[Goaty Bill]

Else said:

Surely the air being displaced by a piston on the downstroke will move into the area left behind by its opposite piston on the up stroke or doesn't it work like that?

I don't remember the precise dynamics of it, but pcv has been around for a very long time, so I am guessing it 'doesn't work like that'

Try this (third paragraph gets to the meat of it); pcv

[Sardonicus]

Else said:

Surely the air being displaced by a piston on the downstroke will move into the area left behind by its opposite piston on the up stroke or doesn't it work like that?

You got to allow for piston blow-by on the firing stroke no matter how good your piston ring seal is there will always be some I would try to use a PCV system as long as I could IMO it also keeps the oil cleaner by removing blow-by contaminates from the oil I prefer a proper PCV valve system like what the Japanese use and Ford from the late 60's to current