Negative Camber... How much...
Discussion
Hi all. First let me explain the car. Volvo S60 T5, 300-310bhp, BC Coilovers, polyed subframe, stiffer rear ARB, AD08s on track/Eagle F1 Assy 2 on road. See garage for more details...
I'm thinking of dialing a bit of negative camber in on my daily which sees track a few times a year just to give a bit more front end grip in corners. Does anybody have any advice on how much negative camber to dial in and whether this will still be beneficial as I don't have an LSD (yet); bearing in mind it's a daily too I don't want to wear the inside of my road tyres out in a massive way. Straight line traction on a powerful FWD can't be compromised too much either.
Sorry it's a rushed post. But would be interested in your opinions and advice.
Cheers
Jim
I'm thinking of dialing a bit of negative camber in on my daily which sees track a few times a year just to give a bit more front end grip in corners. Does anybody have any advice on how much negative camber to dial in and whether this will still be beneficial as I don't have an LSD (yet); bearing in mind it's a daily too I don't want to wear the inside of my road tyres out in a massive way. Straight line traction on a powerful FWD can't be compromised too much either.
Sorry it's a rushed post. But would be interested in your opinions and advice.
Cheers
Jim
by 'daily' I mean 'to use when its really pissing down or to shop the gf around in'.If you're looking for a more pointy car, I'd probably look at a stiffer rear arb / softer front; you've got quite a limited amount of geometry adjustment on a 'road' car.
WRT camber, as has been said, it'll wear the insides fast. It will also have a negative effect on traction, and you're likely to struggle to get even 2-3 degrees 'cos there's a limit to how much you can move the top of the strut (I'm assuming the volvo has struts)
I run -1.5 on the front of a track mx5, but I would like a little more, but in fairness the mx5 is a double wishbone setup, and keeps the camber quite well as it rolls/also they're not driven wheels.
Another angle (pun intended!) is to look at castor - more castor will give you dynamic camber - i.e. as you turn the wheel it will induce camber.
WRT camber, as has been said, it'll wear the insides fast. It will also have a negative effect on traction, and you're likely to struggle to get even 2-3 degrees 'cos there's a limit to how much you can move the top of the strut (I'm assuming the volvo has struts)
I run -1.5 on the front of a track mx5, but I would like a little more, but in fairness the mx5 is a double wishbone setup, and keeps the camber quite well as it rolls/also they're not driven wheels.
Another angle (pun intended!) is to look at castor - more castor will give you dynamic camber - i.e. as you turn the wheel it will induce camber.
400+bhp 4WD celica here. also on BC coilvovers (RM inverted).
-2 degrees camber all round, with extra castor at the front to increase dynamic camber when turning into corners.
you can add extra castor by rotating the front topmounts around so the struts are leaning back as far as possible.
as its a daily driver, i would not go more than 1.5, unless you like buying tyres for fun.
i would dig out a picture if i had one of the topmounts ://
edit: see http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.php?p=10605123&a...
-2 degrees camber all round, with extra castor at the front to increase dynamic camber when turning into corners.
you can add extra castor by rotating the front topmounts around so the struts are leaning back as far as possible.
as its a daily driver, i would not go more than 1.5, unless you like buying tyres for fun.
i would dig out a picture if i had one of the topmounts ://
edit: see http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.php?p=10605123&a...
Edited by andycaca on Tuesday 11th March 14:49
upsidedownmark said:
If you're looking for a more pointy car, I'd probably look at a stiffer rear arb / softer front; you've got quite a limited amount of geometry adjustment on a 'road' car.
WRT camber, as has been said, it'll wear the insides fast. It will also have a negative effect on traction, and you're likely to struggle to get even 2-3 degrees 'cos there's a limit to how much you can move the top of the strut (I'm assuming the volvo has struts)
I run -1.5 on the front of a track mx5, but I would like a little more, but in fairness the mx5 is a double wishbone setup, and keeps the camber quite well as it rolls/also they're not driven wheels.
Another angle (pun intended!) is to look at castor - more castor will give you dynamic camber - i.e. as you turn the wheel it will induce camber.
The rear ARB is stiffer and the front ARB is standard. Might knock a few clicks off the softness on the front to see if it is a little more positive. I would imagine using the BCs that at least 2 degrees would be possible.WRT camber, as has been said, it'll wear the insides fast. It will also have a negative effect on traction, and you're likely to struggle to get even 2-3 degrees 'cos there's a limit to how much you can move the top of the strut (I'm assuming the volvo has struts)
I run -1.5 on the front of a track mx5, but I would like a little more, but in fairness the mx5 is a double wishbone setup, and keeps the camber quite well as it rolls/also they're not driven wheels.
Another angle (pun intended!) is to look at castor - more castor will give you dynamic camber - i.e. as you turn the wheel it will induce camber.
andycaca said:
400+bhp 4WD celica here. also on BC coilvovers (RM inverted).
-2 degrees camber all round, with extra castor at the front to increase dynamic camber when turning into corners.
you can add extra castor by rotating the front topmounts around so the struts are leaning back as far as possible.
as its a daily driver, i would not go more than 1.5, unless you like buying tyres for fun.
i would dig out a picture if i had one of the topmounts ://
edit: see http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.php?p=10605123&a...
Interesting!-2 degrees camber all round, with extra castor at the front to increase dynamic camber when turning into corners.
you can add extra castor by rotating the front topmounts around so the struts are leaning back as far as possible.
as its a daily driver, i would not go more than 1.5, unless you like buying tyres for fun.
i would dig out a picture if i had one of the topmounts ://
edit: see http://bbs.scoobynet.com/showpost.php?p=10605123&a...
Edited by andycaca on Tuesday 11th March 14:49
e21Mark said:
I would say 3.5 degrees as a maximum, although usually ran between 2 or 3 at rear and 1.5 on front. (E30 BMW with 300bhp, running 195/50x15 888r's)
1.5* on the front of any car be it FWD, RWD, AWD is about as much as I tend to run on a road car otherwise it's new tyres every few months but worse you find that the more camber the more the car tends to pull to the left due to curvature of most roads.jimbobsimmonds said:
The rear ARB is stiffer and the front ARB is standard. Might knock a few clicks off the softness on the front to see if it is a little more positive. I would imagine using the BCs that at least 2 degrees would be possible.
Just to be clear, the stiffer the car is across the axle (springs and roll bars), the less grip it will have - softening the front will make it more grippy at the front. Stiffening the front will make it more understeer biassed. Vice versa at the rear.(I'm not entirely clear from your email what exactly you are planning)
The type of the strut is less relevant, it has more to do with the top mount, and how much wriggle room there is in the strut turret to move the top of the strut.
I installed a de-camber rear beam in my e21, as the negative camber was excessive when I lowered the suspension. I know some people like to run a lot of negative camber, in order to get their tyres beneath stock wheel arches, but am pretty sure that anything over 4 degrees negative would compromise any cars handling. I think with e21/e30 BMW, you get .9 degree of negative camber, for every inch the suspension compresses. If you start with 4 degrees (static), I'm guessing you'd end up with a far smaller tyre contact patch on your outside wheel? For the OP, it'll depend on suspension type.
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