Which to choose aluminium Cobra or C type replica ?

[hedgefinder]

Not sure which section to post this in so I have posted in here and in the kitcar section

as per the title, if you had the choice which would you go for and which manufacturer for an as near as damn it exact replica of either both bodily and mechanically..

Aluminium bodied AC cobra
or
aluminium bodied C type Jaguar

Any other reasons for your preference?

[RESSE]

If I could, I would go for a C Type.

[Hooli]

C-Type, because they are just classier & British.

[aeropilot]

Cobra.

So, for ally bodied, it would be a proper CSX tagged modern Shelby.

BUT......I suspect there will be issues in the UK with one of those, especially if you want a nut for nut accurate to original era car.

While the 427 is the obvious choice, I think I'd go for a 289 FIA one.



Details of the Shelby 50th Anniversary FIA 289 version here.....

http://www.shelbyamerican.com/50fia.asp

[bigblock]

The Kirkham Cobra is a very accurate reproduction of the original Cobra 427 S/C and probably leads the way if you want a top end aluminium bodied car.
http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/

Hawk Cars are their distributor in the UK.
http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/

Depending on the spec you want (genuine 427FE engine, original style suspension, girling brakes etc) then you are looking at between £100k and 125k for a OTR car. I am not sure how that compares with a C Type of a similar standard.

Shelby America produce the CSX4000 series 427 S/C with an aluminium or glassfibre body and are a bit more expensive than a Kirkham, although many people think they are not as well engineered. The Shelby Cobra comes with an authentic CSX chassis number like the originals and will be listed on the Shelby register (if that is important to you).

My own preference would be for a Kirkham because I think they are a quality engineered car and you are not paying extra for the Shelby name.

The only real Cobras are the ones from the 1960's so don't fall for a lot of the hype that goes with buying this type of replica and the over inflated prices asked by some dealers.

Edited by bigblock on Tuesday 11th March 17:31

[aeropilot]

What's the situation with a Kirkham in the UK though, can you get them registered if built as an accurate replica as possible...?

Would the Shelby version, having a CSX number etc be easier in this respect?

[16VJay]

How do Shelby issue "authentic" CSX chassis numbers when that is an AC Cars chassis number prefix?

All original Cobras were built by AC in Thames Ditton and the US market cars were finished by Shelby's in California. And I believe Shelby's current Cobras' body/chassis units are also built in the UK....

[bigblock]

aeropilot said:

What's the situation with a Kirkham in the UK though, can you get them registered if built as an accurate replica as possible...?

Would the Shelby version, having a CSX number etc be easier in this respect?

Kirkham only supply a complete rolling shell, you need to finish it with an engine and gearbox. You can get a new build Kirkham through the IVA test in the UK with the right help and then it would be registered on the V5 as a Kirkham Cobra. You could also get one built and registered in the states then import it as a per any normal car

The Shelby CSX4000 Cobras are the finished article and will be pre-registered in the states so there will be no IVA requirements just the hassle of importing them and the taxes. The bonus of the Shelby is that it will be registered on the V5 as a Shelby Cobra which is important to some people. Although that has more kudos in the USA than here where most people would probably prefer it to be registered as an AC.

The above examples are for new Cobras but there are quite a few good used ones for sale in the states. If you don't mind LHD ( all original 427S/C were LHD anyway) then there are some decent bargains to be had across the Atlantic, although they have a particular preference for mirror polished bodies and monster horse power engines.

[bigblock]

16VJay said:

How do Shelby issue "authentic" CSX chassis numbers when that is an AC Cars chassis number prefix?

All original Cobras were built by AC in Thames Ditton and the US market cars were finished by Shelby's in California. And I believe Shelby's current Cobras' body/chassis units are also built in the UK....

That's a good question, I am not sure how Shelby took 'ownership' of the CSX prefix.

The original Cobras chassis were designated by AC as.....
COB - (RHD AC cars )
COX - (LHD AC European Export)
CSX - (LHD Shelby Export USA)

It maybe because the CSX designation was specifically created for Shelby he decided he was entitled to continue using it. ?

[aeropilot]

bigblock said:

16VJay said:

How do Shelby issue "authentic" CSX chassis numbers when that is an AC Cars chassis number prefix?

All original Cobras were built by AC in Thames Ditton and the US market cars were finished by Shelby's in California. And I believe Shelby's current Cobras' body/chassis units are also built in the UK....

That's a good question, I am not sure how Shelby took 'ownership' of the CSX prefix.

The original Cobras chassis were designated by AC as.....
COB - (RHD AC cars )
COX - (LHD AC European Export)
CSX - (LHD Shelby Export USA)

It maybe because the CSX designation was specifically created for Shelby he decided he was entitled to continue using it. ?

Yes, the CSX prefixed cars were the 427's which had the Ford/Shelby designed chassis, so although fabricated in the UK by AC under contract, the 427 cars were never AC's, and never badged as such. Only the pedals carried the AC script. This is why Shelby used the CSX prefix for these continuation Cobras, as they were exactly that, continuations of the original cars. The fly in that ointment is when Shelby started doing CSX prefixed early 'slab sided' small block Cobras, which originally didn't have CSX numbers and had the AC designed ladder chassis.

[aeropilot]

bigblock said:

Although that has more kudos in the USA than here where most people would probably prefer it to be registered as an AC.

Only by people that don't know anything about Cobra's......

[CR6ZZ]

Classic Car Developments in NZ do a very nice and fairly accurate alloy bodied D-Type. This one was destined for the UK. They also do C-Types and GT40s.




[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/70yRVD2q[/url

]

[Lax Power]

I had a C-Type first (GRP):


It turned out to be the car that I should never have sold. In search of a similar thrill I have recently acquired this so when the weather warms up I will let you know how the experiences compare.

[72twink]

aeropilot said:

the CSX prefixed cars were the 427's which had the Ford/Shelby designed chassis

Really?

Interestingly I was sat next to a guy at the ACOC dinner on Saturday who had sold his Kirkham to buy a MkIV and release some funds, which he then repeated to get a CRS!

(If it was me I'd be going to Brooklands and having a car beaten out on the bucks and jigs upon which all "Shelby" cars were made.)

[Roy C]

72twink said:

If it was me I'd be going to Brooklands and having a car beaten out on the bucks and jigs upon which all "Shelby" cars were made.

(taken on a visit to AC in 2000)

[aeropilot]

72twink said:

aeropilot said:

the CSX prefixed cars were the 427's which had the Ford/Shelby designed chassis

Really?

Yup, when Ken Miles first stuffed a side-oiler into a 289 Cobra chassis they realised that the chassis wasn't adequate, so with imput from AC (they had to fabricate it afterall) and access to Ford's mainframe computer to crunch the numbers, the chassis was redesigned to accomodate the big-block.

[Mr. Magoo]

There are few more evocative and beautiful race cars than the C type IMHO. I like Cobras but the 289 is far more beautiful than the 427. One day I might swap the Lag for a C or that delectable yellow/green D type at Charmans.

[72twink]

aeropilot said:

Yup, when Ken Miles first stuffed a side-oiler into a 289 Cobra chassis they realised that the chassis wasn't adequate, so with imput from AC (they had to fabricate it afterall) and access to Ford's mainframe computer to crunch the numbers, the chassis was redesigned to accomodate the big-block.

Can you explain CSX2000-2589 then - these all had small block engines.

[aeropilot]

72twink said:

Can you explain CSX2000-2589 then - these all had small block engines.

USA market small blocks.

[72twink]

aeropilot said:

the CSX prefixed cars were the 427's

Which means this comment is ...........?