Budget telescope

[willld]

My wife in her infinite wisdom bought our 8 year old daughter a telescope described as "this brilliant beginner's telescope comes with everything budding astronomers aged seven and up need to start exploring space with 3 magnifications - 20X, 30X and 40X" in reality I could have made something better out of a loo roll and the bottoms of Stella bottles. Even on the lowest magnification there's too much vibration to to see anything.

So rather than her get completely dejected trying to use it, is there such a thing as a useable budget telescope (under £100)?

[nellyleelephant]

Best bang for your buck would be something like this, which gets good reviews.
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...

It's slightly over budget and a smaller version is available, but if she gets in to it she would be able to keep the bigger one for longer.

The smaller one....
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...

You would have to understand that these are at the budget end though and you do quite often get what you pay for....quality of mirrors, focuser, eyepieces etc....

I would recommend giving First Light Optics a call as they always give good advice.

[jmorgan]

Maybe binoculars and a planesphere?

I think you need to go north of a £100 to a half decent one. Second hand one maybe?

[nellyleelephant]

Secondhand is always good, most of my stuff is!

Bins would be good, as long as your daughter isn't too fussed about the planets, you would want a tripod too though.

[Moonhawk]

nellyleelephant said:

Best bang for your buck would be something like this, which gets good reviews.
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...

It's slightly over budget and a smaller version is available, but if she gets in to it she would be able to keep the bigger one for longer.

The smaller one....
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...

You would have to understand that these are at the budget end though and you do quite often get what you pay for....quality of mirrors, focuser, eyepieces etc....

I would recommend giving First Light Optics a call as they always give good advice.

To be honest - they are expensive for what they are. You can get a brand new EQ mounted Newtonian for similar money (and Celestron are generally well regarded as a manufacturer).

http://www.green-witch.com/acatalog/NEW_Astromaste...

I have an older version of this telescope - and have had it for about 25 years. It still comes out on occasion even though I now have a 10" SCT. I found the EQ mount, especially the slow motion controls made scanning the sky for faint fuzzies much easier.

On threads like this - people will always throw binoculars into the mix. TBH - a decent pair of binoculars will cost as much as a telescope especially when you are talking large apertures, but they are very limited in scope (excuse the pun) and cannot be upgraded with different eyepieces, filters etc. The eyepiece you use to view Jupiter or Saturn will likely be different to the one you'd use for Andromeda or the Orion Nebula. Also - unless you get a very expensive pair, they will also suffer from Chromatic aberration - like any low cost retractor would. I have always found using them frustrating to use especially when hand holding since its almost impossible to get a steady view - and if you throw binocular mount into the mix too - you may as well have a telescope.

One thing I would say - don't buy cheap eyepieces. I once tested an el-cheapo telescope (Jessops own brand) which came with a cheap eyepiece. The views through it weren't very good until I put a decent eyepiece on it - it totally transformed the view. A decent eyepiece wont make a rubbish telescope good, but it will allow the telescope to perform at its best.

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 19th March 08:24

[nellyleelephant]

The reason I would go for one of the 2 dobs is because of the simple mount. An EQ mount and refractor for £110 is not going to perform as well as larger newt on a simple mount.

[Eric Mc]

None of which will mean anything to the OP - I'd guess.

[Foliage]

Id start a young child off with a cheap pair of binoculars (£15-20 doesn't matter if they are dropped etc, you could buy 2 pairs) if you haven't already done so, they have a better field of view than a scope and are far easier to use, and a decent book aimed at the correct age of the child.

This is worth a read, about half way down the page

http://www.stargazingtonight.com/gearequipment/bin...

ETA - Bins are more adaptable too and could be used for nature watching and other outdoor stuff that children that age are interested in.

Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 19th March 14:23

Edited by Foliage on Wednesday 19th March 14:24

[nellyleelephant]

Eric Mc said:

None of which will mean anything to the OP - I'd guess.

He's not been back anyway!

Put simply, I'd spend more on the telescope side and less on the complicated mount side, but everyone will have their own ideas / experiences.

[Eric Mc]

It's just that there was too much jargon. What on earth would a beginner know about expressions such as "newts" and "dobs".

[Moonhawk]

nellyleelephant said:

The reason I would go for one of the 2 dobs is because of the simple mount. An EQ mount and refractor for £110 is not going to perform as well as larger newt on a simple mount.

Simpler /= better. The slow motion controls on an EQ mount can make scanning the sky and accurate pointing much easier - especially if the OP set the mount up correctly for their Latitude and pointed it roughly north.

The increased aperture of the alt/Az mounted Dob over the EQ mounted Newt wouldn't warrant the loss of this fine control IMO - part of the challenge is finding the object you want to observe in the first place. If you cant find an object - no amount of aperture will help.

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 19th March 14:30

[nellyleelephant]

Eric Mc said:

It's just that there was too much jargon. What on earth would a beginner know about expressions such as "newts" and "dobs".

Which is why I suggested ringing First Light Optics for advice.

[Moonhawk]

Eric Mc said:

It's just that there was too much jargon. What on earth would a beginner know about expressions such as "newts" and "dobs".

If people genuinely know nothing about telescopes - then even using the full expressions "Newtonian" or "Dobsonian" or simplifying it further to "Reflector" or "Refractor" probably isn't going to help. They either need to do some homework - or ask for further clarification.

A certain amount of jargon goes with the territory.

Just in case the OP does come back - this may help

http://www.astronomytoday.com/astronomy/tbfaq_4.ht...

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 19th March 14:39

[valiant]

First of all check out this forum, very friendly and they know all there is to know and will help you regardless of budget.

http://stargazerslounge.com

also this site is pretty good for used equipment,

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/browse.php

Keep an eye on ebay and stick with brands like Skywatcher, Celestron and Meade and you won't go far wrong

[Moonhawk]

valiant said:

First of all check out this forum, very friendly and they know all there is to know and will help you regardless of budget.

http://stargazerslounge.com

also this site is pretty good for used equipment,

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/browse.php

Keep an eye on ebay and stick with brands like Skywatcher, Celestron and Meade and you won't go far wrong

+1. I have bought and sold on Astro Buy sell - great site.

[willld]

Thanks for the advice so far

I already have a couple of pairs of binoculars. The larger ones are heavy and need resting on something solid to get a wobble-free view of anything. I'd need some sort of adaptor for my existing camera tripod I guess, or a different tripod. The smaller ones don't let much light in or magnify things greatly. Neither of which are very suitable for an eight year old.

If I get a useable telescope that isn't a toy I can use it myself as well and justify any budget creep to the wife.

[nellyleelephant]

Maybe something like this then http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-035BN-Binocular-... to work with your photographic tripod. You would at least find out if your daughter is interested enough to warrant further investment.

[Moonhawk]

willld said:

If I get a useable telescope that isn't a toy I can use it myself as well and justify any budget creep to the wife.

Budget creep eh!.............

http://www.meade.com/lx850

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 19th March 16:28

[jmorgan]

Binoculars can also be used on a table. There are plans if you search to make one, basically it is a mirror on a support and the binoculars are clamped on to look at the mirror. The mirror is pointed at the sky. Sit nice n comfy at the garden table looking down into the bins.

[Eric Mc]

Moonhawk said:

If people genuinely know nothing about telescopes - then even using the full expressions "Newtonian" or "Dobsonian" or simplifying it further to "Reflector" or "Refractor" probably isn't going to help. They either need to do some homework - or ask for further clarification.

A certain amount of jargon goes with the territory.

Just in case the OP does come back - this may help

http://www.astronomytoday.com/astronomy/tbfaq_4.ht...
=

Edited by Moonhawk on Wednesday 19th March 14:39

It is not obligatory to use jargon. Maybe the person replying should take this into account when composing their reply and try and use ordinary words. It's only a bit of courtesy.

And if you can't stop yourself using jargon, perhaps a note in brackets explaining what you mean would not go amiss.

After all, the OP asked for advice. You might as well give him advice that's understandable.

By the way OP (if you are still reading) "Dobs" = "Dobsonian" and "Newt" - "Newtonian". Dobsonian refers to a type of telescope mount and Newtownian refers to a specific type of telescope - one which mainly uses a reflecting mirror to magnify rather than lenses.

As an aside, Mr Dobson, who invented the mount which is named after him, died only a month or so ago.