Talivans on Motorway bridges
Discussion
Travelling with the flow on the M4 towards Swansea yesterday (good, clear conditions), I noticed several 'temporary speed camera' signs on the hard-shoulder along several miles of motorway, but no camera..... then I saw it...a van parked on a bridge over the carriageway with the hatch open in the side. Quick look at the speedo - just under 80 (ooops!).
Question, the van (and the sign with the camera logo on it) was partly obscured by the bridge railings and posts - if I'm unlucky enough to receive a notice in the post, is this worth complaining about, together with the argument about the excellent road conditions etc?
Question, the van (and the sign with the camera logo on it) was partly obscured by the bridge railings and posts - if I'm unlucky enough to receive a notice in the post, is this worth complaining about, together with the argument about the excellent road conditions etc?
^Slider^ said:
whats the fact the op may be a civvy got to do with it??? still legal for a civilian to record speed as far as i am aware.
I might have got this wrong but here goes......
If a policeman is measuring speed he uses 2 checks (Or he should).
1. Using his Eyes - He believes a car is speeding so then he confirms this with........
2. The Laser or whatever he is using. Which will show the car is either above or below the limit.
The issue as I understand is that only a policeman is qualified (sp?) in court to say that a car was speeding, he can then do the second check (The laser)
The problem is that the civi talivan operators don't have the qualification to be able to judge speed so they are just pointing the gun at everything that moves in the off chance they are over the limit. (Much like some policemen!)
I think Gatso etc work on the same principle. The laser performs the first check, then the photo confirms it.
The issue that really concerns me is the new speed guns that they are testing (In Dorset I think) which can catch you from best part of a mile away be used. I think I'd struggle to guage what speed a car is doing from that distance! So I guess they'll just be pointing the speed gun at everything!
parrot of doom said:I suspect they will just send out more notices.....ker-ching!
Also you're travelling with the flow, so they might be reluctant to release the video (the operator would be recording everyone's speed.
parrot of doom said:
Check if the operator was a civilian, or a policeman, if the former, you're clear.
AFAIK the point of these camera vans is that they don't need particular skills or judgement to operate them...just basically-trained operators, leaving technology to do the rest.
Thanks for the replies anyway chaps. :fingerscrossed:
outrider said:
[quote=wolosp]Travelling with the flow on the M4 towards Swansea yesterday (good, clear conditions), I noticed several 'temporary speed camera' signs on the hard-shoulder along several miles of motorway, but no camera..... then I saw it...a van parked on a bridge over the carriageway with the hatch open in the side. Quick look at the speedo - just under 80 (ooops!).
Question, the van (and the sign with the camera logo on it) was partly obscured by the bridge railings and posts - if I'm unlucky enough to receive a notice in the post, is this worth complaining about, together with the argument about the excellent road conditions etc?
They still have to ID the driver, anyway at 80mph I wouldn't worry. If you get a nIP just stall ask for piccies plead ignorance throw the NIP in the bin, they will send another chuck that in the bin as well -works for me. use the "Hamilton defence", don't sign any letters, they'll give up!
I can't understand drivers who just give up, admitt it and then pay up and collect the points! Sad bastards!
I never drop below 90mph on mw's if I can help it - what's the point in having a fast car/bike if yer can't use it
Formerly volvod5_dude
2004 Volvo V70R,
2004 BMW K1200RS Alpine White/Orient Blue
>> Edited by outrider on Thursday 25th November 10:03
In our neck of the woods civilian-manned talivans sit on the motorway bridges with monotonous regularity, and (I believe) prosecute anyone travelling at 79mph or over, ie as per the ACPO threshold.
When we've challenged him about the civilian operators the good Steve Callaghan will only state that they are authorised by the Chief Constable to carry out speed enforcement, claiming that this satisfies the required definition in order for them to form a prior opinion of speed.
Whether this would stand up in court seems very doubtful. Is it really that easy to become a Police Officer? I imagine it needs a test case, but that again could be tricky, as it may well be that cases where this challenge is made get quietly dropped before they get to court. If only a few people make this challenge then obviously it would make sense for the SCP to do so, rather than risk the whole thing being overturned.
Another interesting point is how they go about "forming a prior opinion" of speed. Apparently in their training they use the laser gun to measure the range to distant objects so that they can deduce how long it should take a speeding car to cover the gap between them. When you think about it, this means that the "officer"'s prior opinion of speed is every bit as dependent upon the accuracy of the machine as the secondary reading. If the gun were to be faulty then it would affect his opinion by exactly the same amount as it would affect the corroboration.
It would be interesting to see whether this would stand up in court as meeting the requirements of "Primary Evidence" + "Corroboration"...
When we've challenged him about the civilian operators the good Steve Callaghan will only state that they are authorised by the Chief Constable to carry out speed enforcement, claiming that this satisfies the required definition in order for them to form a prior opinion of speed.
Whether this would stand up in court seems very doubtful. Is it really that easy to become a Police Officer? I imagine it needs a test case, but that again could be tricky, as it may well be that cases where this challenge is made get quietly dropped before they get to court. If only a few people make this challenge then obviously it would make sense for the SCP to do so, rather than risk the whole thing being overturned.
Another interesting point is how they go about "forming a prior opinion" of speed. Apparently in their training they use the laser gun to measure the range to distant objects so that they can deduce how long it should take a speeding car to cover the gap between them. When you think about it, this means that the "officer"'s prior opinion of speed is every bit as dependent upon the accuracy of the machine as the secondary reading. If the gun were to be faulty then it would affect his opinion by exactly the same amount as it would affect the corroboration.
It would be interesting to see whether this would stand up in court as meeting the requirements of "Primary Evidence" + "Corroboration"...
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