RE: Motorsport On Monday: 24/3/14
RE: Motorsport On Monday: 24/3/14
Monday 24th March 2014

Motorsport On Monday: 24/3/14

PH decides to re-write the F1 rulebook; Bernie, you can thank us later



It's fair to say that the new-for-2014 Formula 1 regulations have proved divisive - and not just for the fans. With new, quieter engines, even Bernie has vowed to get F1's mojo back when it comes to sound.

This in 2014 isn't looking likely
This in 2014 isn't looking likely
This year's rulebook has prompted plenty of spectators - from the hardened F1 fanatic to even the casual Sunday afternoon observer - to question exactly why the FIA opted to rock the boat.

The series needed it, as a fifth year of unimpeachable reliability and Herr Vettel romping away into the distance from Friday morning to Sunday evening doesn't bare thinking about. And although the new rules seem to have stopped that, the question is, have they worked for you?

That's why at PH we're pondering if Jean Todt gave us a call and a green light for some no doubt rather lucrative consultancy work hacking a new set of rules together, what would PHers like to see in there? Soapboxes at the ready...

The progress of turbos in F1...
The progress of turbos in F1...
Engines
We'll start with what's been probably the most controversial point of the season so far: the motors. Are they noisy enough for you? Do you think extra hybrid energy recovery is the way forward? Or would you prefer an open engine formula with close balance of performance regulations and power equalised by fuel flow rate?

For me at least, it'd be a return to the 3.5-litre V10 era on sound alone, or the period of 1.5-litre turbos, with massive levels of power really testing the drivers. I suppose, then, my like for small capacity turbos in F1 proves that the new rules really could work if reliabilityimproves just a touch and, more importantly, if the teams manage to liberate a few more decibels from the new V6s. Certainly by the way the cars were moving around in the wet in Australia, they're proving to be a suitably largehandful.

Bring this back, says Sean
Bring this back, says Sean
Design and looks
For me, the engine changes would only play a small part and would be made with a number of other tweaks to the design of the cars, the tyres they use and even whether or not refuelling would be allowed.

One thing's for sure, my ideal F1 car wouldn't have any frontal appendage that could be likened to the snout of an anteater's nose, a platypus's beak, an elephant tusk or, ah, any other anatomical part. In fact, it'd pretty much look like a McLaren MP4/5.

But there's some (albeit shaky) science behind that.

Although the FIA has tried this year, a serious reduction in downforce would improve the racing. Forget drivers whinging about a lack of grip or balance - I'm sure their millions of euros will keep them warm at night, plus it's their job to drive what they're given - the sport is about entertainment. Even more so today with fans and sponsors picking up the tab.

Are all these really necessary?
Are all these really necessary?
In my opinion, function should dictate the form of a Formula 1 car, but not at the expense ofaesthetics, or my health. I don't want the silhouette of a phallus burnt into my retina.

Tyres
Much has been made of tyres in recent F1 seasons. Too much maybe, as an excuse for under-performing, overpaid superstars? That's another story entirely...

But, next to tyre regs from 30 years ago, current rules do seem just a bit over complicated. Rather than forcing teams to use two different compounds during the race, how about a soft and a hard with a set performance difference? Let's say the soft was two seconds a lap quicker (roughly) but you could go longer on the hards without pitting - similar to recent years maybe, but you wouldn't have to use both compounds and the softs wouldn't fall apart after a handful of laps.

Also, bring back qualifying tyres. Formula 1 is about pushing the envelope of what's possible in terms of engineering, as well as a drivers' mental and physical ability. Chucking four one-lap super sticky specials at the car means we'd certainly get a show.

Sean wants a return for refuelling too
Sean wants a return for refuelling too
Refuelling
I say allow it. It brings back another strategic element and would mean the soft/hard tyre debate would have greater importance, as tyres are inextricably linked with fuel loads.

Example: you're on a three-stop strategy and use soft tyres every stint, refuelling in small amounts at each pit stop. With a rival on a two stopper using the hard tyre first and a high fuel load, pitting for a splash and dash and some soft rubber with 10 laps to go, if the balance between the two tyres was right, it could set the race up for an almighty final battle.

Structure
On the subject of qualifying, I think it should be an open one-hour long session with no parc ferme rules imposing fuel loads to start the race on.

Turbos in F1 have some heritage!
Turbos in F1 have some heritage!
That way we'd get a mad last 15 minutes, and we'd know clearly who was the fastest driver in the fastest car. Just look at how well that format works in MotoGP.

I'd also ban double points and simplify the system to keep the championship closer for longer. 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 with one for fastest lap would do it.

We've not even talked about DRS yet, but with so much murmuring around the new rules, now's the time to speak up. What would you like to see - or not see - in F1?

[McLaren MP4/5 pic: LAT]

 


Author
Discussion

V8 FOU

Original Poster:

3,023 posts

170 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
My 2p.
Tyres, no restriction. Soft, hard, whatever. Let the teams and car/manufacturers live or die by their decisions.
Engines, something like 3 litre n/a. With an inlet restrictor if the poor drivers can't handle the power or to try and equal it all. No KERRS or similar. Compulsory fuel stops.
That's a start....

900T-R

20,406 posts

280 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
As F1 is supposed to represent the pinnacle I'd just like them to say: Here's the box your F1 car needs to fit into, here are the safety regs, here's the specification and amount of fuel you get for the race, here's the (choice of) tyres you need to work with, have fun and we can't wait to see what you come up with, come the first race weekend of the season. smile

paulvillage

23 posts

169 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Anyone watch the Moto GP last night, now that's noise! and also the racing is fantastic!

mcdjl

5,695 posts

218 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
100l of fuel. Driver in car, must pass crash tests and not kill him/other drivers in similar set of rules to todays tests. Open wheels. Free engine/kers/aero within max car size. Min car weight of 400kg, max of 800kg. Must stay in contact with ground and be wheel driven.

mrdemon

21,146 posts

288 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
having a limit on fuel is stupid.

allow any fuel and refuelling.

Having driver manage their car now is boring, add this to the new dull engine sound and thank goodness I only watch BBC hi lights.

shame the cars over the pond look better


Edited by mrdemon on Monday 24th March 11:06

Roma101

859 posts

170 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Your mention of the points system made me realise what a good example of the law of unintended consequences the change of the points system was a few years ago - I know, I'm a bit slow.

From what I now recall it was Bernie who was getting frustrated with people settling for 2nd or 3rd and not going for the win because they would only drop two/four points to the winner. This, he argued (partly) led to processional races where no-one took risks or made last ditch lunges up the inside.

So, what did he do? He changed the points system to the current one. The idea was that having a large gap between 1st and 2nd would encourage people to really go for the win. Unfortunately, a negative effect of this, and one that we saw last year, is that it can allow one driver to run away by 2/3 of the season. So, Bernie then decides to have a new rule to counter that (double points).

If the double points rule results in a deserved champion-elect to lose the title because a Marussia pulls out on him and wipes him out, will that be fair? Will Bernie then think up another rule to fix that problem? I think inventing new rules to counter the unintended consequences of previous ones is dangerous. Better to chop the tree down and grow a new one then let it grow out of control.

Bernie - maybe have a mini-league for the last 4 races, like in rubgy. The top 5/6 drivers after the first 14/15 races go into a mini championship between them, they start from 0 points and the person who has the most points by the final race is the champion. wink

Edited by Roma101 on Monday 24th March 11:05

Theallotmentman

140 posts

227 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
I want to see full on tech so no limits really. Priority in safety of course but why not go back to the best of engineering with V12-16 with turbos galore, fan cars, 6-8 wheels even with mad aero and refuelling, whatever tyres you like and anything else that pushes the boundaries! If not anything from mid eighties will do me! Now it's like F1 with HR and Euro compliance everything! I have a great idea in fact. Put a 10 year old boy in charge and let him choose, then it will be fun!

Steve12NG

311 posts

175 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Having a limit on the amount of fuel for a race is fine, but I don't see the point in limiting the allowable fuel flow rate.

I mean, if everyone has 100kg for the race, let them use it however they want. If someone goes nuts, they run out before the end.

And, the sound of the current cars is just wrong. Far too quiet.

Fix the sound, allow refuelling, and get rid of the fuel flow limitation and I reckon we'd be half way there.

Stokemon

76 posts

218 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Set amount of fuel for the whole race (you don't have to start with it all, refulling allowed), with a max 800bhp so power doesn't get too silly. And let the engine manufacturers come up with something clever.

DRS can be ditched all together. It's rubbish.

Ditch double points. It's worse than DRS.

Return to early 2000's wing rules. They were better proportioned. Maybe reduce the box for front and rear wing to reduce overall downforce, and make sure the silly wings everywhere can't be employed. Removing downforce all together would remove a part of F1 for me. Aero is always going to be included, accept it.

Open Wheel, Open Cotpit must be maintained. Safety is paramount yes, but they get paid millions to put their lives at risk, give them a little risk.

Tyre Rules as stated in the article. 25-18-15... points can stay. And I like the current quali set up so I want to keep that.

Nobbles

585 posts

283 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
What if they didn't change the rules? I think that would have been a good option. If all that development and effort into the new engines etc was put into last years car, maybe Vettel and RBR would not be running away again... Re-introduce pit stops with refuelling and extra points for positions gained in a race (only from 10th position upwards), fastest lap (but not the final lap), fastest pit stop. Maybe a little bit sonic the hedgehog but if managed correctly so the winner is truely the winner - it could work.

suffolk009

7,354 posts

188 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
No DRS

No Bernie.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

152 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
I hope this isn’t going to become F1 on Monday…. No mention of MotoGP, & last week no mention of Sebring 12 Hours.

F1 has a major problem; ‘The Show’…. Its become about entertainment as much as an engineering test. In other sports, if someone/ team dominates, they just get on with it. In Motorsport, they have to ‘handicap’ them so there is no domination – and take the series down to the wire.

There should be 2 sets of tyres; hard and soft – and you can use whatever you want. No mandatory choice. Also, a 1.6T engine, but with as many/ few cylinders as you want.
F1 has become far too regimented – with far too little individualism.

By contrast, the WEC, while not perfect is doing most things right. (apart from maybe the BoP)

Oz83

720 posts

162 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
The new technical regulations were made in the name of progress and I think it's still too early to say if they are good or bad (quiet sounding cars excepted). Let's just sit back and watch things unfold - it's still more interesting than watching The Finger dominate proceedings every race.

The only change I would make right now would be to scrap the double points thing. That's a complete farce and I still can't believe it's actually going to happen.

A question for the engineers out there. Would getting rid of the fuel flow rate restriction result in louder cars (as a result of increased revs)?




405dogvan

5,329 posts

288 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
I think people are forgetting that engineers have a history of defeating rules in 'creative ways' - and teams have a history of defeating rules using outright cheating and "threatening to take the ball home" too - so if rules need to be changed, they'll be changed.

I'm a bit disappointed that the thing people complain about most is the 'lack of noise' tho - they moan about lack of overtaking and lack of excitement which is fair enough - but lack of noise is hardly the biggest problem in motor racing is it?

If nothing else, these e-turbos are an interesting thing which needs some engineer effort expending to get them ready for road use - that alone is a good reason to watch and wait I think. They have the potential for turbo power levels with supercharger-like delivery and much lower maintenance/wear-and-year issues BUT there are packaging issues AND someone has to prod manufacturers to look at them more closely.

Eric Mc

124,822 posts

288 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Shows the silliness of segregating F1 from "Motorsport" on PH.

FerrousOxide

227 posts

168 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Same regs as for Formula Ford except engines, in which regard anything goes (within some arbitrary limits... maybe 3litres na would be a good start). And I guess they should have to pass crash-tests, as the "good old days" weren't universally better than the modern era.

Appreciate this is riddled with flaws, but at least it would be exciting...!

RemarkLima

2,786 posts

235 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
The trouble with "open format" rules is that it'll be a spending war between RedBull and Mercedes, everyone else will be priced out of the competition, even McLaren IMHO.

Then it'll be a two horse race and more to complain about.

The fuel flow limit is to stop banzi qualifying tune, and therefore having the expense of making engines to withstand 1500 bhp and then only run 700 bhp during the race.

Really, I'm liking the new setup for engines, they just need to get rid of the ugly front ends and reduce the aero a bit further still and job's a carrot.

I do agree with the old style points system and ditch the double points.

Pumajay

1,072 posts

227 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
Id like to see an open everything formula, but managed with a cost cap, you'd have set parameters but you can run what engine/tyre/wheelsize/aero etc aslong as you dont over spend.

MrVMrV

11 posts

151 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
3.0 V8's limited to 700bhp....
Everything else, team can do as they please

RWD, AWD, 4 wheel steer, 6 wheels, pram tires up front, crazy wings, Mid-engine, rear-engine - you name it

Let Newey et al go absolutely bonkers to get the best out of the V8 up to the 700bhp limit

It should be about envelope pushing design, strategy and driver skill... no more radio messages telling drivers not to push it

900T-R

20,406 posts

280 months

Monday 24th March 2014
quotequote all
RemarkLima said:
The trouble with "open format" rules is that it'll be a spending war between RedBull and Mercedes, everyone else will be priced out of the competition, even McLaren IMHO.

Then it'll be a two horse race and more to complain about.
I seriously question that. Historically, Ferrari used to have the highest budget by far for most of the time yet they were easy fodder for the '60s 'garagisti' in most seasons...
The stricter the tech rules, the more the top teams will spend on eking out teeny tiny advantages - because there is simply no scope for something more radical...
When off the leash, sheer brilliance wins from loadsamoney every single time...