Monday 24th March 2014

Alfa Romeo to dump small cars?

Report says Alfa will ditch MiTo and Giulietta in a renewed focus on rear-drive saloons

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Alfa Romeo could dump its small, front-wheel-drive models and instead focus exclusively on rear-driven cars and SUVs, according to the latest story on the perennially ailing brand.

Good looking and RWD? It's an idea

The German car title Autobild (via Reuters) says the Fiat-owned brand won't replace the MiTo supermini and bigger Giulietta as it drives to push the brand more upmarket.

Alfa Romeo will instead focus on 3-series and 5-series rivals called Giulia and Alfetta respectively, according to the story, both underpinned by a new rear-drive platform that has apparently been dubbed Giorgio.

In this latest plan, the Spider arrives in 2016 followed by saloon and estate versions of first the Giulia in 2017 and then the Alfetta the following year. A couple of SUVs on all-drive versions of the same platform will arrive at the same time as the rear-drive pair.

Despite the lack of official confirmation it sounds a believable plan, and one that puts more focus on the US and possibly China than Europe given the larger models. But will it ever happen?

The original plan...

It feels like forever that we've been promised a renewed and healthy Alfa and it shocked us slightly to be reminded that the 8C halo supercar, conceived to proudly lead the brand back into battle, was first shown as a concept back in 2003.

Now we finally have the 8C's younger brother the 4C and with some reservations, we reckon it's a fine standard-bearer for Alfa. But as for the rest of the promised range, we're like rush-hour train passengers gloomily watching the information board painfully extend the predicted arrival time.

Back in 2010 Fiat was confidently predicting we'd have the Guilia saloon and estate in 2012. As shown in a natty chart explaining the timetable, the new Spider would have been here in 2013 and there'd be a choice of two SUVs already. American flags showed they'd all be sold in the States.

More like the 4C please Alfa. And soon

But Fiat got distracted by the need to fold its brands into the successful Chrysler merger, while its key southern European markets tanked, meaning Alfa got put on the back burner. Even the Mazda MX-5/Alfa Spider collaboration isn't set in stone, with new rumourssuggesting that it could be badged a Fiat or Abarth instead.

We'd be interested to hear what your take on this latest apparent push is. Is Alfa stronger selling rear-drive saloons with a couple of sports cars on the side for tone? Or should it be working on improving the smaller front-drive cars to become a maker of seductive little sporty coupes and hatchbacks? Or is it time to turn the whole operation over to VW and let the German behemoth achieve its oft-stated wish to give the brand the revival it deserves?

[Source: Reuters]

[aarondbs]

I have a soft spot for Alfa. Probably like most who state the same I'm not entirley sure why either. I have had 3 Alfas and still own one that is sat in the garage and that I can't bare to get rid of and that I sway from fixing up to tracking it.

One of the best cars I have ever owned was an Alfa 164 24V Cloverleaf which I hold in much higher regard than any other car I have owned before or since. It was FWD but had something about it over an E39 530i that I owned after that in all measurable terms was the better car.

I have since owned a 3.0 166 and the current 156 V6. All have thrown up big bills and had me constantly worried about another. The common denominator of course with all of these was the Alfa V6 engine. It doesnt matter what Alfa do now, RWD, FWD, large or small they have always been dominated by an engine. The Alfa sud with its boxer, some of the twin cams and twin sparks were great but that V6 has remained my favourite engine of all.

I've been avaoiding the phrase all post but here goes. Alfas need soul!! Turning the brand over to VAG cannot and would not add soul.

[k-ink]

The last new Alfa I bought was a 147 GTA. Wonderful engine, which the chassis couldn't cope with. If they get back to RWD cars it will be great. No need to make huge cars. Small to medium is fine. Just make them RWD. No one wants the depreciation only a large Italian can manage. Same as the large French cars. Just don't bother.

[chelme]

This is a very good decision, although there is no harm in keeping one FrWD platform (the Giuletta's)updating it and renaming it.

[kambites]

I think it makes a certain amount of sense. The likes of BMW and Mercedes may get away with making small, FWD family cars but that's in no small part because they have a recent history of (and hence reputation for) producing up-market saloons and coupes. Alfa's recent history is too scarred by mediocrity - if they're serious about taking on the Germans, I think they need to re-establish themselves as makers of premium cars before they can afford to go down-market again.

[swindonredtop]

The one brand not mentioned here is Maserati. With the new 5 series size saloon and the SUV on the way it looks as though Alfa's new plan is the same as Maserati. I'd have to say as much as I love both brands it'll be easier to bring the Maserati brand "down market" into premium brand territory than it will be to push Alfa up into the same space. It's not as if they haven't been trying that trick for the last 30 years. Perhaps if they are planning to try the VW trick of putting both brands on the same platforms at the same prices and letting the customer have a choice of Italian metal they might stand a chance but they need to fix one before the other surely?

[Presuming Ed]

Alfa needs to be taken out of the clutches of the FIAT group as they consistently seem to be trying to reinvent the brand without ever launching new models.

It seems daft to get rid of Mito, cheap to develop as its Punto in a party frock and some nice leather and Gulietta. They are key for Volume. How will developing a new series of RWD from scratch make the quick profits Alfa require? Yes they can use the Ghibli but will this not be at a far too higher price point.
The sensible thing would have been to have a tie up with Jaguar on chassis and engine development but they let that pass them by.

[trashbat]

This has been rumoured for ages - at least six months, along with the CAR article on RWD only - but I'm not sure I believe it.

The answer will probably come from whether Fiat-Chrysler require their small car platforms to be spread into Alfa in order to make them feasible. I think the Giulietta platform turned into the Dodge Dart, a Jeep and the Chrysler 200 - but no more Lancias, maybe no more Punto, and "all future Alfas to be RWD", then what's the point?

The MiTo platform stemmed from the GM alliance days and is shared with the big 500s which aren't going away, so that itself makes sense, but instead the MiTo has the problem of not being core to the point of Alfa.

[trashbat]

Anyway, we'll find out the latest version of the truth in the next month with the coming of the 'revised 5 year plan'.

[MycroftWard]

It surely makes sence for Alfa to build a 3 series sized car, preferably with RWD. I don't know why they didn't facelift or replace the 159 and keep running with a saloon in their range.

To me the Mito and Guiletta are quite pleasant looking but don't seem special enough to really stand out from the crowd. The 4C on the other hand does seem to me to have a bit of wow factor and offer that something different.

[kambites]

MycroftWard said:

I don't know why they didn't facelift or replace the 159 and keep running with a saloon in their range.

At a rough guess, because the existing platform was non-viable for modern safety expectations, they didn't have an obvious platform to pick up from elsewhere and FIAT weren't willing to put up the cash for them to develop their own.

[Alfahorn]

I'm sick and tired of Fiat coming up with business plans for Alfa which they then don't follow through on. Fiat saved Alfa when they took control of it from the government in 1986, now they seem to be intent on slowly killing it.

It's almost 3 years since the 159, Brera, Spider and GT were all killed off and we're still no closer to a any replacements.

Depressing.

[Oddball RS]

How to commit automotive suicide, don't stick to plan A, fudge plan B, make future promises that were even more unlikely than plan A and whilst you'r at it stop anyone buying one of your two existing models by saying its a dead end for the company.

[trashbat]

kambites said:

MycroftWard said:

I don't know why they didn't facelift or replace the 159 and keep running with a saloon in their range.

At a rough guess, because the existing platform was non-viable for modern safety expectations, they didn't have an obvious platform to pick up from elsewhere and FIAT weren't willing to put up the cash for them to develop their own.

Safety was excellent, but the 159 was an evolutionary dead-end that came from a failed partnership with GM, with GM never building any cars on it. Thus they didn't have any other cars - in group or elsewhere - to share costs with.

[kambites]

trashbat said:

Safety was excellent.

By the standards of the time, it was decent enough. By the standards of now, I suspect it was poor. If nothing else, I don't think the 159 could have met current bonnet-block clearance regulations and making it meet them would have either cost a lot of money or ruined the styling.

[Newro]

chelme said:

This is a very good decision, although there is no harm in keeping one FrWD platform (the Giuletta's)updating it and renaming it.

Assuming they shut down and upgrade the existing production line, there actually is a significant cost overhead in keeping an old platform alive. Alfa is still a relatively small company. And small Italian FWD cars are well served by the Fiat brand ... both the 500 and the Panda are superb.

Affordable sporty RWD cars with Italian flair are a bit of a niche market right now.

I was very excited about the Ghilib last year, so a 3 Series alternative with an Alfa badge might actually be something I would buy as a daily commute. Provided it isn't all show and no trousers.

[schmalex]

IMO. Sadly, Alfa really is an irrelevance trading off a glorious early history that, today, with 2 exceptions (4C & 8C), offers nothing more than a bland line up of "me too" shopping trolleys.

Fiat should either kill the brand or let it try to re-establish itself as something more than an also ran when compared to its direct competitors from Ford / Vauxhall. Perhaps ditching the small FWD euro boxes and looking to target the big 4 German marques is what they need to do in order to regain their former glory. However, Alfa will have a hell of job getting a foot in the "perception of quality" race.

Leaving it limping along, offering shoddily built, generally ugly propositions just prolongs its agony.

Edited by schmalex on Monday 24th March 14:41

[900T-R]

kambites said:

At a rough guess, because the existing platform was non-viable for modern safety expectations, they didn't have an obvious platform to pick up from elsewhere and FIAT weren't willing to put up the cash for them to develop their own.

The platform was actually GM's 'premium' platform developed at saab and ultimately dismissed by the General on cost grounds so that Alfa turned out to be its only user... It's too heavy, granted, but as far as safety engineering is concerned probably a generation or two ahead on what GM ended up with (Epsilon 2), let alone the 1990s Mercedes E-Class underpinnings that form the base of the current 300C and Ghibli (and very probably the new large Alfa saloon if it ever surfaces. Given the current ration between development costs and earnings, platforms tend to last at least two and often three vehicle generations these days, anyway.

The real issue is just complete lack of forward planning. Around the turn of the century, Alfa had a compact hatchback, a midsize and a large saloon, a coupé and a convertible, then all of a sudden it was just a small and a compact hatchback, leaving existing customers for the other four models without a reason to revisit the Alfa showroom unless they wanted to downsize, now they will ditch those exact two models that constituted their entire portfolio before the 4C? Where exactly are the customers for the new cars going to come from given that conquest sales are about ten times as hard to come by as repeat purchases whenever the replacement for the car folks are already driving is in the showroom?

Can you ever imagine going down to your BMW dealer to replace your 3-series, and the salesman saying 'Awfully sorry Sir, we don't sell anything like that anymore, could I interest you in an i3 or a 7-series instead'?

Edited by 900T-R on Monday 24th March 14:38

[j90gta]

Alfa haven't built a good small car since the Alfasud. My brother had a 1979 1.3 4 door. It could drive rings around our sister's Mk.1 Golf Gti. More importantly the inboard front brakes were in a different league to the VW. If only they didn't use cheap Eastern Bloc steel in their manufacture. A prime lesson in how to make a great car but using shoddy materials like any Italian car of the period!!

[kambites]

900T-R said:

kambites said:

At a rough guess, because the existing platform was non-viable for modern safety expectations, they didn't have an obvious platform to pick up from elsewhere and FIAT weren't willing to put up the cash for them to develop their own.

The platform was actually GM's 'premium' platform developed at saab and ultimately dismissed by the General on cost grounds so that Alfa turned out to be its only user... It's too heavy, granted, but as far as safety engineering is concerned probably a generation or two ahead on what GM ended up with (Epsilon 2), let alone the 1990s Mercedes E-Class underpinnings that form the base of the current 300C and Ghibli (and very probably the new large Alfa saloon if it ever surfaces. Given the current ration between development costs and earnings, platforms tend to last at least two and often three vehicle generations these days, anyway.

Ah, fair enough. However, the fact remains that further development of the platform was, for whatever reason, not viable and FIAT presumably weren't willing to finance the development of a new one.

IMO, Alfa need to be sold to an Eastern company looking for a halo brand and willing to pump money in to make it work.

[GranCab]

Merge Alfa with Lotus ...