c.£25k daily driver - 996 Turbo or 993 Carrera/Targa?
Discussion
Hi all, can I get your advise please? I am choosing between a 996 Turbo and a 993 C2/Targa and run them for 4-5 years (9k-10k miles per year). I have driven both, like them individually and would happily drive them every day. In terms of total ownership costs (depreciation, servicing and maintenance, etc.), which will be a better bet? What else should I consider? I am looking at cars c.£25k-ish.
Many thanks, G
Many thanks, G
Hard one to call - depends how good condition they are to start with, and the starting mileage.
Depends on your daily driving - stuck in a traffic jam? Get something else.
Difficult to predict 5 years hence, but they will both have kept more of their value than most cars.
Buy on condition, not mileage, and keep them in good condition of course.
Therefore the turbo will probably cost more in servicing, as the 993 only needs plugs every 24k miles, other than that it's just oil changes every 12k which any idiot can do.
Depends on your daily driving - stuck in a traffic jam? Get something else.
Difficult to predict 5 years hence, but they will both have kept more of their value than most cars.
Buy on condition, not mileage, and keep them in good condition of course.
Therefore the turbo will probably cost more in servicing, as the 993 only needs plugs every 24k miles, other than that it's just oil changes every 12k which any idiot can do.
Orangecurry said:
Hard one to call - depends how good condition they are to start with, and the starting mileage.
Both will be in excellent, either reputable dealers (Northway/JZM/911V/etc. or private-sourcing and fully inspected. I am not afraid of mileage and the 996T will be c.70k and 993 will be c.100kOrangecurry said:
Depends on your daily driving - stuck in a traffic jam? Get something else.
A combination of central London (2-3 days a week), cross-country and continental trips to Munich, Stuttgart and Frankfurt for work.Orangecurry said:
Therefore the turbo will probably cost more in servicing, as the 993 only needs plugs every 24k miles, other than that it's just oil changes every 12k which any idiot can do.
What about engine rebuilt, etc.? I would have budgeted an engine rebuild on a 996 C2/Targa but should I budget for one for a 993/996T?Just to add:
On the turbo, it's the turbos etc that can require a rebuild. Radiators. My knowledge is limited.
On the 993 (as long as there has been no accident damage) it's chassis-rail rust and screen-aperture rust that require money, but that is hundreds not thousands. If it has tired suspension then your driving-pleasure will be lessened, so you should budget to replace that if it hasn't been done AND by someone who knows what they are doing, and that isn't many. If it has a/c?... that may or may not be functioning correctly. That costs money mostly in labour as the workings are buried under the petrol tank. Again labour costs if any of the covers on the engine are weeping - lower are 'easy', upper are not. Some specialists tell you the engine must come out, others can do it in-situ.
I could go on
On the turbo, it's the turbos etc that can require a rebuild. Radiators. My knowledge is limited.
On the 993 (as long as there has been no accident damage) it's chassis-rail rust and screen-aperture rust that require money, but that is hundreds not thousands. If it has tired suspension then your driving-pleasure will be lessened, so you should budget to replace that if it hasn't been done AND by someone who knows what they are doing, and that isn't many. If it has a/c?... that may or may not be functioning correctly. That costs money mostly in labour as the workings are buried under the petrol tank. Again labour costs if any of the covers on the engine are weeping - lower are 'easy', upper are not. Some specialists tell you the engine must come out, others can do it in-situ.
I could go on
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 26th March 09:31
Orangecurry said:
...oh and good luck finding an 'excellent' 993 for sale 
The upside is I am not in a hurry to buy. I can wait for the right car where the numbers stack up. Also, when I meant "excellent", I meant mechanically perfect and no rust, etc. I am not too bother about cosmetics like stone chips, etc. as I am going to use it as a daily anyway so no point in buying one with a pristine exterior. Unless it's a low mileage garage queen, chances are high that there is rust in the areas I mentioned, and no matter who inspects the car, the chassis rails are covered by a metal plate under the wheel-arch protector, so unless this is taken off the inspection cannot determine the extent of rust. The screen aperture rust can be very bad below, and have no/little sign up-top.
If you are interested in chassis rails, here is mine (which spent it's first 39k miles hidden in garages) at 55k miles in 2012
http://www.orangecurry.com/993/chassis-rails/
If you are interested in chassis rails, here is mine (which spent it's first 39k miles hidden in garages) at 55k miles in 2012
http://www.orangecurry.com/993/chassis-rails/
Orangecurry said:
Unless it's a low mileage garage queen, chances are high that there is rust in the areas I mentioned, and no matter who inspects the car, the chassis rails are covered by a metal plate under the wheel-arch protector, so unless this is taken off the inspection cannot determine the extent of rust. The screen aperture rust can be very bad below, and have no/little sign up-top.
If you are interested in chassis rails, here is mine (which spent it's first 39k miles hidden in garages) at 55k miles in 2012
http://www.orangecurry.com/993/chassis-rails/
Thanks Orangecurry. Very clear photos and good work! Would a 996T be less susceptible to rust in the long term (4-5 years)?If you are interested in chassis rails, here is mine (which spent it's first 39k miles hidden in garages) at 55k miles in 2012
http://www.orangecurry.com/993/chassis-rails/
No idea. But once you catch these two areas on the 993, it will not rust further.... well no more than any other painted-metal object.
The chassis rails rust because there is a dirt-trap behind the wing-plate, and there is limited paint in here from the factory - once sorted/painted properly it won't rust again.
The screen apertures rust usually because a careless windscreen fitter damages the paint very slightly on a screen replacement. The aperture unfortunately holds onto water especially in the lower corners behind the thin plastic trim piece.
Porsche spotted this and issued a TSB which suggested filling the aperture with sealant. This means there is nowhere for the water to sit.
In any case, a specialist like Langley only charge hundreds to sort the apertures properly if there is rust. I wouldn't let either deter you from buying a 993 - simply budget/expect this as a worst-case.
The chassis rails rust because there is a dirt-trap behind the wing-plate, and there is limited paint in here from the factory - once sorted/painted properly it won't rust again.
The screen apertures rust usually because a careless windscreen fitter damages the paint very slightly on a screen replacement. The aperture unfortunately holds onto water especially in the lower corners behind the thin plastic trim piece.
Porsche spotted this and issued a TSB which suggested filling the aperture with sealant. This means there is nowhere for the water to sit.
In any case, a specialist like Langley only charge hundreds to sort the apertures properly if there is rust. I wouldn't let either deter you from buying a 993 - simply budget/expect this as a worst-case.
I would think the 996 Turbo would be easier to live with day to day, especially if you get creature comforts such as cruise control, heated seats etc. All Turbo's will have climate control as standard. These cars were made for the kind of journeys you mention.
I suspect that driving the 993 would feel more special/involving than the 996, and running costs cheaper, but when you just want to get 'there' no matter what the conditions, I would go with the Turbo.
Depreciation is a tough one to call. I reckon the 993 will hold more value than the Turbo. There, I've said it!
I suspect that driving the 993 would feel more special/involving than the 996, and running costs cheaper, but when you just want to get 'there' no matter what the conditions, I would go with the Turbo.
Depreciation is a tough one to call. I reckon the 993 will hold more value than the Turbo. There, I've said it!
I've just bought a 996 turbo and would recommend doing the same to anyone the car is just awesome in every way. I looked at a few 997 turbos also water cooled but you never hear anyone criticising them! For me the 996 has slightly better steering involvment than the 997 but the 997 has a better newer interior amongst other things.
For the money you can't get a better car and it has the metzger engine which is already known as the best racing engine ever... For me I think it's only a matter of time when everyone recognises the 996 is just as good as any other 911 variant.. I mean just mention (996) gt2 and everyone is in awe of that car and basically it's a turbo with no driven front wheels. Looks very similar apart from rear wing, wider rear wheels & a bit more lary! The 996 turbo can be remapped & upgraded with immense bhp if you want it that way which may effect the resale value if you sell it on. You can buy a stock x50 or turbo s too! Mines running 480 bhp with just a remap & the power is relentless. The turbo is usually bulletproof if you get a decent one, so always have a pre purchase inspection before you buy,I did and have a fab car. Just to add the guy who did my ppi who owns a gt3 said after driving mine for a daily drive he's going to be looking for a 996 turbo as he forgot how much of a good car they are & there's so much for £25,000 to £30,000. I had the choice of £25k for 996 or £50ish for 997 and although I really like the 997 too I think I made the right move, similar car one with a price that will go down & one that won't go much lower but may even go up...only time will tell and I'm totally enjoying that time in my turbo;0)
For the money you can't get a better car and it has the metzger engine which is already known as the best racing engine ever... For me I think it's only a matter of time when everyone recognises the 996 is just as good as any other 911 variant.. I mean just mention (996) gt2 and everyone is in awe of that car and basically it's a turbo with no driven front wheels. Looks very similar apart from rear wing, wider rear wheels & a bit more lary! The 996 turbo can be remapped & upgraded with immense bhp if you want it that way which may effect the resale value if you sell it on. You can buy a stock x50 or turbo s too! Mines running 480 bhp with just a remap & the power is relentless. The turbo is usually bulletproof if you get a decent one, so always have a pre purchase inspection before you buy,I did and have a fab car. Just to add the guy who did my ppi who owns a gt3 said after driving mine for a daily drive he's going to be looking for a 996 turbo as he forgot how much of a good car they are & there's so much for £25,000 to £30,000. I had the choice of £25k for 996 or £50ish for 997 and although I really like the 997 too I think I made the right move, similar car one with a price that will go down & one that won't go much lower but may even go up...only time will tell and I'm totally enjoying that time in my turbo;0)
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