Discussion
My laptop has been returned after repair (at last!) and I have HP Tuners working. When I came to connect it I found that my PC did not have a serial i/o port - so I had to buy a USB/serial adaptor - it works fine. Also I've bought a 12v -> 240v inverter, so that I can run the laptop in the car - for logging real time engine performance, using the scanner - without fear of the PC battery going flat.
I've downloaded the VCM - there is a lot of info to look at! Paul UKHSV - I have the UK 2004 monaro 'bin' file for you to look at. Any chance of exchanging files? - I'm interested in the torque file we talked about.
Going to go out for a run in the car today with the scanner running. The Linden S2 maf causes the engine management light to come on a few minutes after warm up - I want to find out what DTC code is being set.
All I have to do now is familiarise myself with the HP Tuners program - there is a lot of activity on their forum.
At some point in the future I'll be visiting Abbey motorsport for a final dyno run. Would be good to get together with other Monaro owners to get their cars tuned, and reduce costs.
Looks like I have many hours of tuning fun ahead!
I've downloaded the VCM - there is a lot of info to look at! Paul UKHSV - I have the UK 2004 monaro 'bin' file for you to look at. Any chance of exchanging files? - I'm interested in the torque file we talked about.
Going to go out for a run in the car today with the scanner running. The Linden S2 maf causes the engine management light to come on a few minutes after warm up - I want to find out what DTC code is being set.
All I have to do now is familiarise myself with the HP Tuners program - there is a lot of activity on their forum.
At some point in the future I'll be visiting Abbey motorsport for a final dyno run. Would be good to get together with other Monaro owners to get their cars tuned, and reduce costs.
Looks like I have many hours of tuning fun ahead!
sounds great, I think I might treat myself. I'd be interested to see whats going on in there when I'm driving.
If you get 2 cables with each kit, and they are both for the same model, doesn't that mean u can ½ the cost with someone ???
>> Edited by alfienoakes on Thursday 25th November 15:19
If you get 2 cables with each kit, and they are both for the same model, doesn't that mean u can ½ the cost with someone ???
>> Edited by alfienoakes on Thursday 25th November 15:19
I'm up for another dyno as I'll be fully run in after xmas and I have a few CAI theories that I'd like to test. I have a feeling that the CAI I have is restricting the airflow which may cancel out the benefit of cooler air.
I also need to speak to Linden to discuss the MAFF as the newer model I'm testing is producing the same "check engine" issues as the old sensor.
Also keen to share costs with the software....
I also need to speak to Linden to discuss the MAFF as the newer model I'm testing is producing the same "check engine" issues as the old sensor.
Also keen to share costs with the software....
v8hsv said:
Don't think so Alfie...
GSE, glad you are happy, I want to go back to Abbey, so does Kevin so thats 3 of for starters.
What USB adaptor did you get for the serial port?
HP recc Keyspan
I'm using a Bandridge CPL4201 USB to serial 'cable'. Having said that it was working ok yesterday ... today, I'm not so sure. The PC keeps loosing its connection to the cable ... looses the drivers and requests they be re-installed or comes up with 'port not open' I think that this is probably an issue with my PC rather than with the HP Tuners software. I might try a different cable.
HP Tuners - one thing is sure, I have a very steep learning curve ahead of me! Went out for a run last night with the scanner recording - its an impressive piece of software.
The only things I've noticed so far are:
The DTC (check engine light) that is set shortly after startup - the codes are P0171 & P0174 - fuel trim system lean bank 1 & 2. Also I've noticed that my long term fuel trims, bank 1 & 2, are set at +25%. So I'm assuming that .... the Linden S2 MAF is causing the engine to run lean ?? (UKHSV?) I'm not getting any knock retard or any other codes so thats good.
I'm sure that there is potential for more BHP with HP tuners, on top of the 350bhp that I have at the wheels with the Linden S2 mechanical mods, and the airbox/wide body maf/throttle body pipe.
I beleive the 25% refers to the level of learning of fuel trim, not the amount of trim.. It certainly is the case with the Vauxhall Tech2 machine, the percentage varies as u drive and under diff loads as the car learns more to trim to max potential within given parameters.
Or, it may be completely different!!!!
Or, it may be completely different!!!!
The PCM is trimming the fuel to maintain the best Air/fuel ratio (for emisions not power) this means your car is operating to lean but the PCM is adding fuel to maintain the correct A/F, so you will have nothing to worry about in closed loop.
But when you hit open loop the LTFT is added to the PE table so you will be 25% over fueled so less power!!!!
The correct LTFT should be 0 to -2...............
The way to correct the problem is to edit your VE and Maf table to allow your PCM not add/remove fuel to maintain A/F 11.7
But when you hit open loop the LTFT is added to the PE table so you will be 25% over fueled so less power!!!!
The correct LTFT should be 0 to -2...............
The way to correct the problem is to edit your VE and Maf table to allow your PCM not add/remove fuel to maintain A/F 11.7
Is there a theoretical max that a LS1 with 4-1 headers, decent exhaust and stock parts will produce that we know of. It appears that unless u start adding superchargers/turbo's the car is fairly maxed with those mods after looking at most peoples power runs.
There appears to be some mileage in software, but only when hardware is changed. Seems 400 at flywheel is about it. Monetary pounds per bhp after then dont seem to make sense. Little gain for huge expense.
Just a thought!!
There appears to be some mileage in software, but only when hardware is changed. Seems 400 at flywheel is about it. Monetary pounds per bhp after then dont seem to make sense. Little gain for huge expense.
Just a thought!!
Without modifying the internals of the engine, it seems that around 400 bhp is quite easy to achieve by opening up the air intake and fitting a decent exhaust system. If you are willing to take the engine apart, no doubt you could get more power by doing mechanical mods such as bigger throttle bodies, higher compression heads, bigger valves etc etc, but these sort of mods tend to be expensive relative to the BHP gains.
Re HP Tuners - I'm not expecting huge BHP gains, I'm just looking to improve the 'driveability' of the car, and maybe improve the fuel consumption a little.
I see HP Tuners as an essential tool to optimise the 'hardware' mods that I have done to my car - the air intake, S2 MAF meter, and the exhaust system (and the AP Brakes
)
At Abbey we've proved that the Linden S2 upgrade does offer more power (350bhp at the rear wheels in my case) BUT .... HP Tuners has revealed that the fuelling seems to be all over the place!
IMO, Linden should not be offering their S2 upgrade without making suitable adjustments to the engine mapping.
>> Edited by GSE on Sunday 28th November 15:10
Re HP Tuners - I'm not expecting huge BHP gains, I'm just looking to improve the 'driveability' of the car, and maybe improve the fuel consumption a little.
I see HP Tuners as an essential tool to optimise the 'hardware' mods that I have done to my car - the air intake, S2 MAF meter, and the exhaust system (and the AP Brakes
) At Abbey we've proved that the Linden S2 upgrade does offer more power (350bhp at the rear wheels in my case) BUT .... HP Tuners has revealed that the fuelling seems to be all over the place!
IMO, Linden should not be offering their S2 upgrade without making suitable adjustments to the engine mapping.
>> Edited by GSE on Sunday 28th November 15:10
Bigger valves are not necessary, but ported or aftermarket cans can produce excellent results. The std valves are already rather large indeed..
There is also considerable room for improvement with the camshaft, as std is very mild indeed, and again, the heads flow so much air especially approaching 0.600" lift, yet the stock cam barely squeezes past 0.500"
Although anything over about 0.560" is getting dodgy with stock springs.
In reality, achieving 400+ should be very easy. There are guys in the US, with AFR 205 heads, a cam, and exhaust/intake, making about 480bhp.
Of course, a supercharger or turbocharger ( or 2 ) can offer so much more )
Again tho, mapping should be adjusted after any modifications. NO tuner should sell a complete package that doesnt include this. Different selling parts, and letting the owner sort that out, but if its sold as complete, it should be that.
A little pic of my new cyl head. Just an LS1 ported, std size valves. As you can see they are huge.
http://gallery112848.fotopic.net/p8886907.html
There is also considerable room for improvement with the camshaft, as std is very mild indeed, and again, the heads flow so much air especially approaching 0.600" lift, yet the stock cam barely squeezes past 0.500"
Although anything over about 0.560" is getting dodgy with stock springs.
In reality, achieving 400+ should be very easy. There are guys in the US, with AFR 205 heads, a cam, and exhaust/intake, making about 480bhp.
Of course, a supercharger or turbocharger ( or 2 ) can offer so much more )
Again tho, mapping should be adjusted after any modifications. NO tuner should sell a complete package that doesnt include this. Different selling parts, and letting the owner sort that out, but if its sold as complete, it should be that.
A little pic of my new cyl head. Just an LS1 ported, std size valves. As you can see they are huge.
http://gallery112848.fotopic.net/p8886907.html
So the Stage 2 upgrade had made the engine run lean, but the cars computer is compensating for this, by adjusting the short and long term fuel trims. No problem at part throttle, as the 02 sensors will adjust the mixture towards 14.7:1, but at full throttle I'm going to be overfuelled. Getting the STFT and LTFT optimised, seems to be the first thing to do, when engine tuning.
I need to fully understand how the LS1 engine management system works, and how the various components interact with each other, before having the confidence to make any changes via HP Tuners. The help files within HP Tuners, relate more to operating the software package, rather than how the engine management system works. Here's a good link that explains all about the fuel trims and how the LS1 management system works:
www.vetteguru.com/mods/howto/
>> Edited by GSE on Tuesday 30th November 00:25
I need to fully understand how the LS1 engine management system works, and how the various components interact with each other, before having the confidence to make any changes via HP Tuners. The help files within HP Tuners, relate more to operating the software package, rather than how the engine management system works. Here's a good link that explains all about the fuel trims and how the LS1 management system works:
www.vetteguru.com/mods/howto/
>> Edited by GSE on Tuesday 30th November 00:25
A good book, although not really into performance tuning as much is this. Covers all the workings, and includes good explanations and wiring diagrams.
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0837608619/qid=1101775951/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-5645754-9567069
I think the biggest downside of all the software for the LS1, is that you cant adjust live.
At least, this is what I am led to believe about LS1 Edit, so I assume HP Tuners is the same ??
I have a 2001 Camaro SS ecu I have no need for, if anyone is interested ?? It wouldnt be expensive, if anyone wants to mess with it.
Im uisng my own DTA ecu for my engine.
>> Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 30th November 01:01
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0837608619/qid=1101775951/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-5645754-9567069
I think the biggest downside of all the software for the LS1, is that you cant adjust live.
At least, this is what I am led to believe about LS1 Edit, so I assume HP Tuners is the same ??
I have a 2001 Camaro SS ecu I have no need for, if anyone is interested ?? It wouldnt be expensive, if anyone wants to mess with it.
Im uisng my own DTA ecu for my engine.
>> Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 30th November 01:01
"stevieturbo" email me with a cost for the PCM.......
HP Tuners latest version has some live functions like being able to turn off/on closed loop, fans, AC, LTFT, gear shift cutouts etc and it is expected to have more stuff in the next update.
The big addition to HP's latest version is the addition of wideband O2 intergration so I can now mointor/log A/F live on the road.......
HP Tuners latest version has some live functions like being able to turn off/on closed loop, fans, AC, LTFT, gear shift cutouts etc and it is expected to have more stuff in the next update.
The big addition to HP's latest version is the addition of wideband O2 intergration so I can now mointor/log A/F live on the road.......
ukhsv said:
"GSE" email me your standard tune and I will see if I can find some areas to change for you.....
GSE said:
Paul UKHSV - I've e-mailed my cars "bin" file, and a scanner log of a trip ("hpl" file) to info@hsvdriversclub.co.uk. It will be interesting to see what you think.
ukhsv said:
got it ......thanks
25% is the max the PCM can adjust to on the LTFT so it might be more......!!!!
Might be a good idea to put on the standard one and re log to see if it is the maf or the exhaust causing the problem.....
Today I re-fitted the original MAF, reset the fuel trims (so we are starting from scratch) and logged a 40 minute run. Rather than seeing the all the LTFTs cells stuck on +25%, they are now varying. They seem to be hovering around +3, with an occasional peak to +12. Will they stop varying with time, and settle down to a stable average? Might try putting the "S2 MAF" back on, and see what that does from scratch.
That shows that your VE table is a bit lean and should be trimed a bit -1 to -2 is a good area for your LTFT..........
The main problem is your maf is not tuned to the car so you need to scale the maf table after you have sorted the VE table......
When logging you are disconecting the Maf? (electric supply) if not your not getting a true set of figures to tune the VE .....
The big problem with the GM PCM is the fact that any one table has 5 or more other tables effecting it!!!!!!
Don't mess with your IFR or any fuel tables until you have a good base tune and then only if you have a Wideband O2 setup (best done on the dyno)
The main problem is your maf is not tuned to the car so you need to scale the maf table after you have sorted the VE table......
When logging you are disconecting the Maf? (electric supply) if not your not getting a true set of figures to tune the VE .....
The big problem with the GM PCM is the fact that any one table has 5 or more other tables effecting it!!!!!!
Don't mess with your IFR or any fuel tables until you have a good base tune and then only if you have a Wideband O2 setup (best done on the dyno)
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