Another ex-Royal Navy carrier getting scrapped
Discussion
Formerly HMS Hercules and sold to India as INS Vikrant it served with the Indian Navy up until 1997 when they bought HMS Hermes as a replacement and Vikrant became a permanently berthed museum in Mumbai, the only WWII era British carrier to be preserved. Up until now, as it's been sold off and is off to Alang to be scrapped.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Not-museu...
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Not-museu...
India originally paid £67m for it in 1957.
On ending Britian's financial aid programme to India - "Playing down Britain's decision, India's president, Pranab Mukherjee, a former finance minister, described the £280m annual aid programme as "peanuts", totalling less than 0.03% of India's national income."
I think they could easily afford any maintenance on the ship if they really wanted to. Since we've been giving them £280m of goodwill each year perhaps they could gift it back to us as an act of goodwill.
On ending Britian's financial aid programme to India - "Playing down Britain's decision, India's president, Pranab Mukherjee, a former finance minister, described the £280m annual aid programme as "peanuts", totalling less than 0.03% of India's national income."
I think they could easily afford any maintenance on the ship if they really wanted to. Since we've been giving them £280m of goodwill each year perhaps they could gift it back to us as an act of goodwill.
nagsheadwarrior said:
Thats a real shame.
O.t but surely India bought Hermes before 1997,or was she lying around mothballed for years?
Correct, but when they bought Hermes in 1989 Vikrant's days were numbered, it was out of active service by the early 90s and never went to sea, it was just used for training before being officially decommissioned in 1997. I probably could have put a full stop after 1997 in my opening post and worded it better but I was tapping away on my mobile at the time O.t but surely India bought Hermes before 1997,or was she lying around mothballed for years?
IanMorewood said:
Yep Hermes went to India in 86, once the RN had three Invincibles up and running she wasn't needed anymore.
I'm amazed they kept her running so long. Admittedly I know next to nothing about 'its just cosmetic rust innit' when it comes to ships but she looked a bit worse for wear post falklands
shouldbworking said:
I'm amazed they kept her running so long. Admittedly I know next to nothing about 'its just cosmetic rust innit' when it comes to ships but she looked a bit worse for wear post falklands
Hell our new carrier is still being painted and she already looks rusty.http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/
FourWheelDrift said:
Will be 70 years on June 24th that construction started on HMS Hermes and it's planned to be in service through to 2017, possibly as late as 2020. Then, who knows.
That's really quite impressive, but then Naval ships do spend a lot of time in port being looked after.We have been scrapping 20 year old Frigates recently. HMS Chatham, type 22 commissioned 1990, decommissioned 2011, scrapped 2013.
Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
FourWheelDrift said:
We have been scrapping 20 year old Frigates recently. HMS Chatham, type 22 commissioned 1990, decommissioned 2011, scrapped 2013.
Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
And served in gentler seas, the north atlantic hands out a hell of a bruising now and then. A armoured carrier designed to take it's fair share of shell hits serving in calm warm waters is pretty much ideal circumstances.Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
FourWheelDrift said:
We have been scrapping 20 year old Frigates recently. HMS Chatham, type 22 commissioned 1990, decommissioned 2011, scrapped 2013.
Isn't that actually quite long service for a Type 22?Wikipedia suggests that most were scrapped or sold after relatively short service.
HMS London only managed 11.5 years but she did at least see further service in the Romanian Navy. HMS Brave was decommissioned after less than 13 years and was sunk as a target.
FourWheelDrift said:
We have been scrapping 20 year old Frigates recently. HMS Chatham, type 22 commissioned 1990, decommissioned 2011, scrapped 2013.
Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
On 27th September 2013, all four Type 22 Batch 3 frigates, Cornwall, Cumberland, Campbeltown and Chatham were alongside in Portsmouth awaiting the tow to Turkey, along with the four Type 42 Batch 3 Destroyers, Manchester, York, Gloucester and Edinburgh, two in the basin, and two over in the creek. Although Hermes wasn't completed until 1959 due to war, post war laid up unfinished and then reconstruction with an angled deck. It is based on a WWII design though.
(HMS) Campbeltown in the foreground.
It doesn't seem that long ago that these brutes were moored in Portsmouth awaiting their fate...
Now I know that you 'can't save everything' but surely one historically important naval aviation asset from either WWII or the Falklands Campaign could have been saved, and kept alongside somewhere (Chatham? If HMNB Portsmouth doesn't have the space?) as a museum?
As a historical artefact, it might become invaluable in the future. Words on pages, and pictures on the internet can be readily dismissed by a sceptical future generation, but when faced with a tangible object, and one the size of a carrier, the teaching of history can be brought to life. They've done it with 'Victory' and 'Warrior', 'Belfast' and 'Cavalier', and there's even the submarine 'Alliance' over the water in Gosport. As a carrier, to 'complete the set', Hermes would have been perfect, providing the link between WWII era carriers and the more modern STOVL carriers/cruisers of the Falklands era. Once they are gone, they are gone, and another important element of our seafaring history is lost forever.
As an ex member of the forces myself it saddens me to see the links with our past severed in such a way. Army and RAF assets tend to be smaller, and attract interest from private owners as well as museums, but naval vessels tend to be too big and maintenance heavy for even the wealthiest individuals. Surely 'the government' can see it has a duty to maintain some links to the past, so that we do not forget the hard-learned lesson of history in the future. "Lest we forget" and all that good stuff, eh?
ralphrj said:
FourWheelDrift said:
We have been scrapping 20 year old Frigates recently. HMS Chatham, type 22 commissioned 1990, decommissioned 2011, scrapped 2013.
Isn't that actually quite long service for a Type 22?Wikipedia suggests that most were scrapped or sold after relatively short service.
HMS London only managed 11.5 years but she did at least see further service in the Romanian Navy. HMS Brave was decommissioned after less than 13 years and was sunk as a target.
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