Trackday kitcar advice please
Discussion
I'm thinking of jacking in my MX5 turbo partly because I fancy a change and partly as it needs so much spending on it to bring it up to spec I may as well sink the money into something a bit more special.
From doing a bit of searching it seems that with about £4-5k my best bet for a mostly-track-use kit car is a syvla striker or maybe an older westfield? Ideally I'd prefer a more modern engine (zetec, toyota twin cam etc.) but I wouldn't rule out a pinto or crossflow car. Any opinions on what I should go for engine wise? Around 200bhp per tonne is probably ok as I'm more interested in handling but my main concern is reliability as I had a very frustrating monday at cadwell losing several hours of track time to mechanical niggles!
So with that budget could I get something significantly more capable than a well prepped MX5? The modern BEC and CEC kitcars always look very quick but I've never seen the less flashy ones going round, are they a different kettle of fish? I kind of assume that all 7esque cars are real weapons round a track but I guess there are plenty of badly set up ones that might be a disappointment?
From doing a bit of searching it seems that with about £4-5k my best bet for a mostly-track-use kit car is a syvla striker or maybe an older westfield? Ideally I'd prefer a more modern engine (zetec, toyota twin cam etc.) but I wouldn't rule out a pinto or crossflow car. Any opinions on what I should go for engine wise? Around 200bhp per tonne is probably ok as I'm more interested in handling but my main concern is reliability as I had a very frustrating monday at cadwell losing several hours of track time to mechanical niggles!
So with that budget could I get something significantly more capable than a well prepped MX5? The modern BEC and CEC kitcars always look very quick but I've never seen the less flashy ones going round, are they a different kettle of fish? I kind of assume that all 7esque cars are real weapons round a track but I guess there are plenty of badly set up ones that might be a disappointment?
Hi Tom, just out of curiocity I didn't take you around Goodwood on the Mission Motorsport Trackday in my Indy last December did I?
To throw my 2 penethworth into your question. You'll need to be on your toes timing wise to bag a bargain in the 7 market as we are getting into "season" and its like any "convertable" the prices "firm up" in Spring / Summer. Having said that £4-£5k gets you into the x-flow / Pinto market for a 7. That also includes the 4AGE Toyoto space. Condition wise "avarage" in reality. You will spend money personalising the car regardless of what you spend. If you want Zetec / Duratec (ST170 type) then you are around the £6-£7k budget and BEC puts you in the £8-£10k arena. All this is ballpark and each case is different so treat these as a guide only.
Couple of points that influence. Get a car thats registerd (IVA / SVA'd) as it will be easier to sell on and also gives you some assurance(as much as an MOT does) that the car has been put together properly. If you are looking for 200bhp/tonne then the £4k+ budget should get you into that arena.
Here is a video review of my MK Indy I did last month so hopefully this will give you some idea of components etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU2nincr4Qs
good luck...............Neil
To throw my 2 penethworth into your question. You'll need to be on your toes timing wise to bag a bargain in the 7 market as we are getting into "season" and its like any "convertable" the prices "firm up" in Spring / Summer. Having said that £4-£5k gets you into the x-flow / Pinto market for a 7. That also includes the 4AGE Toyoto space. Condition wise "avarage" in reality. You will spend money personalising the car regardless of what you spend. If you want Zetec / Duratec (ST170 type) then you are around the £6-£7k budget and BEC puts you in the £8-£10k arena. All this is ballpark and each case is different so treat these as a guide only.
Couple of points that influence. Get a car thats registerd (IVA / SVA'd) as it will be easier to sell on and also gives you some assurance(as much as an MOT does) that the car has been put together properly. If you are looking for 200bhp/tonne then the £4k+ budget should get you into that arena.
Here is a video review of my MK Indy I did last month so hopefully this will give you some idea of components etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU2nincr4Qs
good luck...............Neil
Thanks for the reply Neil. I have seen a couple of zetec powered cars in the classifieds for a smidge over £5k asking price that look good in the photos but who knows! There's a westfield and also a Tiger Super Cat:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
Not sure about Tigers...how do they compare to Westfields and Strikers in terms of weight and handling?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/k...
Not sure about Tigers...how do they compare to Westfields and Strikers in terms of weight and handling?
All depends on the build. As a general statement the Westfield should be of better quality. The Striker has a reputation for excellent handling, good chassis.
Tigers are not an endangered species in the kit car world. Lot of them about but they do have a bit of a reputation for weak components. Now that could be a symptom of the number of kits that are home built and simpky the volume of them in the market. So pays your money and takes your choice.
........ Neil
Tigers are not an endangered species in the kit car world. Lot of them about but they do have a bit of a reputation for weak components. Now that could be a symptom of the number of kits that are home built and simpky the volume of them in the market. So pays your money and takes your choice.
........ Neil
Perhaps one to have a look at then. By the way, I forgot to answer your question; it wasn't me that had a passenger ride with you but maybe I should try and blag a few of them! I rarely see the kind of kitcars I can afford on track though; they always seem to be more modern high spec ones.
In fairness my car isn't in that budget bracket either. I do 6 or 7 TD's a year all over the place, I'm lucky enough to have done Brands, Goodwood and Spa-Francorchamps in the last 5 months but equally I've done Lydden Hill a couple of times recently and I can say based on my experience a well set up and well driven £4k Pinto powered 7 will not show itself up on any track day.
T0MMY said:
Hmmm...guy on a bike forum I go on has offered me an MNR VORTX with an R1 engine for £4k (with a few issues to sort). Are these rated handling wise? Seems a lot of bang for my buck, depending on what the issues are.
If you are not interested, could you pass on the details? I could be very interested!I'm just waiting on a reply with more details on the issues but I know it has a fuelling issue at present (lumpy running at low revs). I don't want to guarantee the price by the way as it might be a mates rates kinda thing! Not really sure what they go for as they've not been on my radar before but it seems like a bargain.
T0MMY said:
I'm just waiting on a reply with more details on the issues but I know it has a fuelling issue at present (lumpy running at low revs). I don't want to guarantee the price by the way as it might be a mates rates kinda thing! Not really sure what they go for as they've not been on my radar before but it seems like a bargain.
I'll keep an eye on this thread, but if you do decide it's not for you... my email is available 
Its dangerous to make generalist comments about any car but an R1 Vortex at £4k is definitely worth a sniff! As long as the car has been put together ok and all the bits are there, even if the engine is toast, there are lots of R1 engines on the market, its worth £4k. Is it registered?
It's registered but off the road at present. The only thing that worries me is that I don't want to buy it and find the running problem takes ages to identify and I miss out on half the trackday season. I'm guessing it will struggle to get through the MOT emissions test at present as I understand that's fairly marginal on R1 engined cars at the best of times?
I guess I could buy it as a project and hang on to the MX5 for trackdays until it's ready to be used. Only problem there is I crashed my CBR600RR trackbike at Cadwell last year so I already have a project that I'm making slow progress on!
I guess I could buy it as a project and hang on to the MX5 for trackdays until it's ready to be used. Only problem there is I crashed my CBR600RR trackbike at Cadwell last year so I already have a project that I'm making slow progress on!
As it is registered make sure the V5 has the correct desciption and not the donor information still on it. The MNR is a fairly new kit so should be OK but if it says Ford Sierra on the V5 then walk away unless you want a long and possibly costly battle with the DVLA or MOT station because the V5 does nopt describe the car it now is.
As the for the engine if all else fails buy another engine for £1k and chuck it in as a direct repelacement.
One place to start to look is - if it has not got the original airbox it may need a powercommander to sort out the fueling if it is on a foam filter and non standard exhaust (if it has one already spend a couple of hundred quid and get it RR setup). There is plenty of knowledge and cars running this set up out there so shouldn't be too difficult to find out if it is fixable or terminal.
All the best and sounds like a good place to start.
As the for the engine if all else fails buy another engine for £1k and chuck it in as a direct repelacement.
One place to start to look is - if it has not got the original airbox it may need a powercommander to sort out the fueling if it is on a foam filter and non standard exhaust (if it has one already spend a couple of hundred quid and get it RR setup). There is plenty of knowledge and cars running this set up out there so shouldn't be too difficult to find out if it is fixable or terminal.
All the best and sounds like a good place to start.
It does have a power commander and has been set up professionally (whether that means properly is another story) and the current owner suspects it's an injector issue.
I do feel I should jump at the chance as it is a good price but with my current job I don't have a lot of time to tinker (or fit a new engine) so I'm just concerned it could turn out to be one of those issues that is probably quite minor once found but potentially very difficult to identify!
I do feel I should jump at the chance as it is a good price but with my current job I don't have a lot of time to tinker (or fit a new engine) so I'm just concerned it could turn out to be one of those issues that is probably quite minor once found but potentially very difficult to identify!
The engine is only one part, remember about;
Tyres & wheels
Exhaust/Induction noise
Brakes
Suspension & general handling (shocks, bushes, springs, alignment)
Weight (or lack of it)
Adequate cooling (water as a minimum)
Baffled sump
Generally a 4k car will be a good road car and fun/fast on track but you'll soon find yourself wanting better tyres, brakes etc etc which is where the costs accumulate to make a 4k car 6k.
Driver tuition will more than compensate for a lower bhp engine.
Buy based on condition and build quality but a road registered track slag doesn't always have to look tidy but should always be mechanically sound.
Tyres & wheels
Exhaust/Induction noise
Brakes
Suspension & general handling (shocks, bushes, springs, alignment)
Weight (or lack of it)
Adequate cooling (water as a minimum)
Baffled sump
Generally a 4k car will be a good road car and fun/fast on track but you'll soon find yourself wanting better tyres, brakes etc etc which is where the costs accumulate to make a 4k car 6k.
Driver tuition will more than compensate for a lower bhp engine.
Buy based on condition and build quality but a road registered track slag doesn't always have to look tidy but should always be mechanically sound.
Good advice!
This MNR definitely needs new wheels...looks like it's on 17s at the moment which can't be good for unsprung weight and seem totally unecessary.
In terms of making it more track worthy in general though I'm sort of in the same boat with my MX5. It's totally standard apart from the turbo kit (which I only did as I got a phenomenal deal on some bits), cooling system and the brake pads. It handles pretty poorly in terms of carrying corner speed but it's still a hoot on track with an amusing balance and surprisingly rapid compared to many cars on trackdays. I kind of figure if I'm going to start splashing out on trick suspension etc. I may as well be starting from a more interesting base car and to be honest I'm quite happy lurching around in the MX5 so a kitcar could hardly be less fun! The main thing is reliability and fun...lap times are less important.
This MNR definitely needs new wheels...looks like it's on 17s at the moment which can't be good for unsprung weight and seem totally unecessary.
In terms of making it more track worthy in general though I'm sort of in the same boat with my MX5. It's totally standard apart from the turbo kit (which I only did as I got a phenomenal deal on some bits), cooling system and the brake pads. It handles pretty poorly in terms of carrying corner speed but it's still a hoot on track with an amusing balance and surprisingly rapid compared to many cars on trackdays. I kind of figure if I'm going to start splashing out on trick suspension etc. I may as well be starting from a more interesting base car and to be honest I'm quite happy lurching around in the MX5 so a kitcar could hardly be less fun! The main thing is reliability and fun...lap times are less important.
PaulKemp said:
MNR @ 4K is worth it without an engine
Silva Striker is very capable and cheaper than similar 7, it's also a naked Fury, i.e. Less bodywork, same frame
Actually the Striker is a naked Phoenix or the Phoenix is a clothed Striker, the Fury chassis is different (wider in places).Silva Striker is very capable and cheaper than similar 7, it's also a naked Fury, i.e. Less bodywork, same frame
I do like the look of the phoenix and fury and I'm sure they have a bit of an advantage on faster tracks but, lame as it sounds, I quite like the idea of being able to see the front wheels like you can in a 7
Just feels a bit more special whereas a Fury presumably feels like driving a much more capable MX5! I definitely wouldn't discount one but I'd prefer a 7.
Just feels a bit more special whereas a Fury presumably feels like driving a much more capable MX5! I definitely wouldn't discount one but I'd prefer a 7.Just to update this thread; I have bought the MNR Vortx, apologies to all the other people that were interested and messaged me!
It's in a bit of a state to be honest, kept outside under a tarpaulin for a couple of years so it's not quite the bargain I'd thought but then it was unrealistic to think it would be inexplicably sold for half it's true value for no good reason. Very much a project then, but I intend to rebuild it gradually and get it back to decent condition. First and foremost though, I just want it mechanically sound for summer trackdays then I'll start on the cosmetics over winter.
It's in a bit of a state to be honest, kept outside under a tarpaulin for a couple of years so it's not quite the bargain I'd thought but then it was unrealistic to think it would be inexplicably sold for half it's true value for no good reason. Very much a project then, but I intend to rebuild it gradually and get it back to decent condition. First and foremost though, I just want it mechanically sound for summer trackdays then I'll start on the cosmetics over winter.
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff