The Greatest 80's Race Car
Poll: The Greatest 80's Race Car
Total Members Polled: 95
Discussion
It's not a question that had crossed my mind until I followed a link in Biker Banter earlier today, where the page in question had this little poll on the sidebar. The list above pretty much mirrors that on the page I read earlier, and - for me - it's pretty representative of the "best" race cars of the 1980's.
The quattro has to be on there for its huge influence on subsequent rally car design, whilst the Delta is equally appropriate for its post-Group B dominance. Cossie and M3 for their Touring Car dominance, likewise the Porsche in its Le Mans exploits. Whilst I'm sure the McLarens were more than cutting edge, I suspect that the driver line-ups for the /2 and /4 had much to do with their success. Of course the Jag tugs at the heart strings for the marque's first Le Mans win in forty-odd years.
My vote? Porsche.
AIUI, Group C during the 1980's was - for engineers - pretty much an open book both aerodynamically and in terms of power plants. We had ground effect, n/a V12's, turbo V8's, turbo flat sixes, 4-rotor wankels and power outputs north of 800bhp. Despite all this, and with what seems just a series of "tweaks", Porsche still dominated Group C in the 80's with the 956 / 962. Which also happened to be a very good looking bit of kit.
The quattro has to be on there for its huge influence on subsequent rally car design, whilst the Delta is equally appropriate for its post-Group B dominance. Cossie and M3 for their Touring Car dominance, likewise the Porsche in its Le Mans exploits. Whilst I'm sure the McLarens were more than cutting edge, I suspect that the driver line-ups for the /2 and /4 had much to do with their success. Of course the Jag tugs at the heart strings for the marque's first Le Mans win in forty-odd years.
My vote? Porsche.
AIUI, Group C during the 1980's was - for engineers - pretty much an open book both aerodynamically and in terms of power plants. We had ground effect, n/a V12's, turbo V8's, turbo flat sixes, 4-rotor wankels and power outputs north of 800bhp. Despite all this, and with what seems just a series of "tweaks", Porsche still dominated Group C in the 80's with the 956 / 962. Which also happened to be a very good looking bit of kit.
MP4/4 for me. Dominated in a way that No other F1 car has before or since and the length of its dominance was kept short by rule changes. It never had a chance to get beaten by a better car. The banning of turbo engines not only killed the MP4/4's dominant powerplant but also had a significant impact on the packaging of the whole car. Next season's engine got twice as long, sidepods no longer needed to provide storage, cooling and plumbing space for two turbos, air intake no longer needed to feed two turbos in the sidepods and got moved just behind the driver's head, and so on.
I do agree that the driver lineup had a big influence on the 4's dominance in '88. I think it could also be argued that the imminent rule changes helped its dominance as many of McLaren's competitors developed with at half an eye or more on the future, but McLaren threw everything at that season and were massively successful because of that.
The 956/962 is also a definite contender, though I do believe the 962 is more different than it looks, it had a carbon fibre tub instead of aluminium, for instance, didn't it? That would give a big increase in torsional rigidity and improve the handling a lot. The engine, packaging and aerodynamic principles of the family certainly stood the test of time though.
I do agree that the driver lineup had a big influence on the 4's dominance in '88. I think it could also be argued that the imminent rule changes helped its dominance as many of McLaren's competitors developed with at half an eye or more on the future, but McLaren threw everything at that season and were massively successful because of that.
The 956/962 is also a definite contender, though I do believe the 962 is more different than it looks, it had a carbon fibre tub instead of aluminium, for instance, didn't it? That would give a big increase in torsional rigidity and improve the handling a lot. The engine, packaging and aerodynamic principles of the family certainly stood the test of time though.
Alfanatic said:
The 956/962 is also a definite contender, though I do believe the 962 is more different than it looks, it had a carbon fibre tub instead of aluminium, for instance, didn't it? That would give a big increase in torsional rigidity and improve the handling a lot. The engine, packaging and aerodynamic principles of the family certainly stood the test of time though.
Some of the privateer 962's had a carbon tub (I think FABspeed and RLR) but the factory cars still had aluminium honeycomb chassis. The 956/962, no question. It was still winning, albeit in modified form, 13 years after its introduction (the 1995 Daytona 24 hours). No other racecar has had such a long - and successfully long - shelf life. The customer sportscar of the decade, if not of all time.
It also happened to look wonderful and perfectly proportioned. The old saying that if it looks right it usually is right has never been more applicable. I loved the slightly lazy engine sound, too.
If I could race engineer a 962 for a test or a race just once I would honestly consider that the zenith of my career - and if I could pick the driver too that'd be a bonus! So if anyone out there has one...
It also happened to look wonderful and perfectly proportioned. The old saying that if it looks right it usually is right has never been more applicable. I loved the slightly lazy engine sound, too.
If I could race engineer a 962 for a test or a race just once I would honestly consider that the zenith of my career - and if I could pick the driver too that'd be a bonus! So if anyone out there has one...
The 956 won LeMans at its first attempt 1982 in a 1-2-3 finish. It set the Nurburgring outright record in 1983, which still stands today. The final victory for the 962 at LeMans was in 1994, and in the period between the various versions of the type won top class races all over the world. How is this even a question...? Nothing else even comes close if you ask me, legendary as the other proposed options all were.
I agree with all that about the 956, its longevity at the top of its sport is unparalleled. It's not a choice that I disagree with to be fair.
Here's the thing though. At Monza '88, the Ferraris could have caught and beaten Senna. He could have run out of fuel. We'll never know for sure because in the end it was a simple, clumsy accident, an aggressive attempt to overtake an inattentive backmarker, that prevented the MP4/4 from being able to retire from F1, unbeaten .
A car that competed against the fastest cars in the world, designed by the most talented engineers and driven by the best drivers, and never lost. That would have been an astonishing record. Personally I remember at the time thinking the Ferrari of Berger was going to catch Senna anyway, but the way it did actually play out means that there's always this feeling in my mind that this was the one car that really could have done it. Unbeaten in F1. What a record that would have been!
It was only around for a year but to me no car's career has ever shone brighter.
Here's the thing though. At Monza '88, the Ferraris could have caught and beaten Senna. He could have run out of fuel. We'll never know for sure because in the end it was a simple, clumsy accident, an aggressive attempt to overtake an inattentive backmarker, that prevented the MP4/4 from being able to retire from F1, unbeaten .
A car that competed against the fastest cars in the world, designed by the most talented engineers and driven by the best drivers, and never lost. That would have been an astonishing record. Personally I remember at the time thinking the Ferrari of Berger was going to catch Senna anyway, but the way it did actually play out means that there's always this feeling in my mind that this was the one car that really could have done it. Unbeaten in F1. What a record that would have been!
It was only around for a year but to me no car's career has ever shone brighter.
Alfanatic said:
I agree with all that about the 956, its longevity at the top of its sport is unparalleled. It's not a choice that I disagree with to be fair.
Here's the thing though. At Monza '88, the Ferraris could have caught and beaten Senna. He could have run out of fuel. We'll never know for sure because in the end it was a simple, clumsy accident, an aggressive attempt to overtake an inattentive backmarker, that prevented the MP4/4 from being able to retire from F1, unbeaten .
A car that competed against the fastest cars in the world, designed by the most talented engineers and driven by the best drivers, and never lost. That would have been an astonishing record. Personally I remember at the time thinking the Ferrari of Berger was going to catch Senna anyway, but the way it did actually play out means that there's always this feeling in my mind that this was the one car that really could have done it. Unbeaten in F1. What a record that would have been!
It was only around for a year but to me no car's career has ever shone brighter.
Senna was indeed saving fuel which is why he crashed. He had turned the wick down but making the difference via the bends and chicanes hence the rash overtake.Here's the thing though. At Monza '88, the Ferraris could have caught and beaten Senna. He could have run out of fuel. We'll never know for sure because in the end it was a simple, clumsy accident, an aggressive attempt to overtake an inattentive backmarker, that prevented the MP4/4 from being able to retire from F1, unbeaten .
A car that competed against the fastest cars in the world, designed by the most talented engineers and driven by the best drivers, and never lost. That would have been an astonishing record. Personally I remember at the time thinking the Ferrari of Berger was going to catch Senna anyway, but the way it did actually play out means that there's always this feeling in my mind that this was the one car that really could have done it. Unbeaten in F1. What a record that would have been!
It was only around for a year but to me no car's career has ever shone brighter.
When Motorsport Magazine did the same thing with the same cars the MP4-4 just edged the Porsche.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/magazine/help-us...
As much of a success the Porsche was, mainly due the sheer numbers made and years raced, I voted MP4-4.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/magazine/help-us...
As much of a success the Porsche was, mainly due the sheer numbers made and years raced, I voted MP4-4.
voted for the sierra, awesome as a touring car, good rally car, still used in club motorsport and winning to this day. finally a stalwart of the short oval scene with heavily armoured 2l stock cars and still winning titles. if the mini was the jack of all trades race car for the 60's the sierra was the same for the 80's
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