Aluminium "Thermite" reactions?
Discussion
Edited to replace the answer with this, after I deployed some thought.
In the current climate, publicly asking how (on a forum populated by serving police officers) to create a potential weapon is probably not a very good idea.
I have the sneaky suspicion that it probably violates some loosely worded act or another and carries rather severe penalties. (Prevention of terrorism possibly?)
Sorry old chap, I dont feel comfortable posting this info in public...
>> Edited by TheLemming on Friday 26th November 13:22
In the current climate, publicly asking how (on a forum populated by serving police officers) to create a potential weapon is probably not a very good idea.
I have the sneaky suspicion that it probably violates some loosely worded act or another and carries rather severe penalties. (Prevention of terrorism possibly?)
Sorry old chap, I dont feel comfortable posting this info in public...
>> Edited by TheLemming on Friday 26th November 13:22
I'm actually a chemist myself, I just thought it would create an interesting debate.
I can't see anything wrong with talking about something which is used repeatedly in real life, non-violent situations. Besides, most public libraries contain enough info to make a few explosive devices.
I am aware this is a speed/law forum and by putting a topic like this in, I am merely being contraversial. (as well as answering my question).
I have no intention of using a thermite reaction myself, or encouraging others to do so.
I can't see anything wrong with talking about something which is used repeatedly in real life, non-violent situations. Besides, most public libraries contain enough info to make a few explosive devices.
I am aware this is a speed/law forum and by putting a topic like this in, I am merely being contraversial. (as well as answering my question).
I have no intention of using a thermite reaction myself, or encouraging others to do so.
In contrast to TheLemming, I like baiting the paranoid bastards... the more so since the "terrorist threat" is their own fault for kissing Bush's arse all the time.
So... I'd be inclined to mix a little of the aluminium powder with an oxidising agent that gives up its oxygen more readily than iron oxide - like a nitrate or chlorate - chlorates being easier to get hold of, or indeed to make - without taking too much trouble to grind the oxidiser up really finely, mix it thoroughly etc. so you end up with a version of flash powder which burns relatively slowly. Then make a little dent in the thermite pile, put some of the slow flash mix in it and ignite it using a cigarette-and-match-heads delayed fuse.
In fact, I've got a load of aluminium powder on the floor at the moment, the result of attacking a cylinder head with an angle grinder. Anyone want to come round with a hoover? You'll have to separate out the grit, cigarette ash and pulverised pecan nuts, but that shouldn't be too hard.
So... I'd be inclined to mix a little of the aluminium powder with an oxidising agent that gives up its oxygen more readily than iron oxide - like a nitrate or chlorate - chlorates being easier to get hold of, or indeed to make - without taking too much trouble to grind the oxidiser up really finely, mix it thoroughly etc. so you end up with a version of flash powder which burns relatively slowly. Then make a little dent in the thermite pile, put some of the slow flash mix in it and ignite it using a cigarette-and-match-heads delayed fuse.
In fact, I've got a load of aluminium powder on the floor at the moment, the result of attacking a cylinder head with an angle grinder. Anyone want to come round with a hoover? You'll have to separate out the grit, cigarette ash and pulverised pecan nuts, but that shouldn't be too hard.
I'm with TheLemming, even though Thermite is used in the rail industry to join rail pieces together, apparently a small blob on the bonnet of a car with melt through the engine and burn a hole in the concrete below.
I really don't want PH becoming a terrorist organisation, but we use Barium Peroxide as a starter
I'll take a look at what *the* cookbook says once I get that hard disc working again.
I really don't want PH becoming a terrorist organisation, but we use Barium Peroxide as a starter
I'll take a look at what *the* cookbook says once I get that hard disc working again.
Pigeon said:
In contrast to TheLemming, I like baiting the paranoid bastards... the more so since the "terrorist threat" is their own fault for kissing Bush's arse all the time.
So... I'd be inclined to mix a little of the aluminium powder with an oxidising agent that gives up its oxygen more readily than iron oxide - like a nitrate or chlorate - chlorates being easier to get hold of, or indeed to make - without taking too much trouble to grind the oxidiser up really finely, mix it thoroughly etc. so you end up with a version of flash powder which burns relatively slowly. Then make a little dent in the thermite pile, put some of the slow flash mix in it and ignite it using a cigarette-and-match-heads delayed fuse.
In fact, I've got a load of aluminium powder on the floor at the moment, the result of attacking a cylinder head with an angle grinder. Anyone want to come round with a hoover? You'll have to separate out the grit, cigarette ash and pulverised pecan nuts, but that shouldn't be too hard.
Argh!
I can see it now! 
Suicide Pigeons! 
I like the nitrate/chlorate salts idea.
The sparkler takes it though.
I hear that superfine aluminium powder is available from most fibreglass suppliers. Like Scott Bader.
So, where would you get superfine Iron Oxide? Apart from oxidising superfine iron?
I was considering making some cast iron articles
Schools use mag ribbon to start it but from personal experience, I can say that it is rather prone to blowing out.
If you were just hypothetically creating a thermite reaction in a pot, purely for fun/curiosity and you had to ensure that it 100% went off, mag ribbon isn't reliable enough. I would say that blow torch>sparkler>Aluminium+oxidiser>thermite mix.
That should work.
>> Edited by love machine on Saturday 27th November 12:09
The sparkler takes it though.
I hear that superfine aluminium powder is available from most fibreglass suppliers. Like Scott Bader.
So, where would you get superfine Iron Oxide? Apart from oxidising superfine iron?
I was considering making some cast iron articles
Schools use mag ribbon to start it but from personal experience, I can say that it is rather prone to blowing out.
If you were just hypothetically creating a thermite reaction in a pot, purely for fun/curiosity and you had to ensure that it 100% went off, mag ribbon isn't reliable enough. I would say that blow torch>sparkler>Aluminium+oxidiser>thermite mix.
That should work.
>> Edited by love machine on Saturday 27th November 12:09
Considering this reaction is taught (well it was, 8 years ago) in second year chemistry lessons the worries about miss use, while grounded are mute.
Such info can easily be found by googling and the thermite reaction is hardly the worst thing someone who is intent on causing destruction could make.
However, does this disscussion not fall foul of the terrorist laws. Something about not allowing a website to contain information that could be usefull to terrorists?
The subject has popped up on other forums I have frequented and most times (when the admins/moderators were clued up anyway) it was quickly removed as they seemed to believe legal responability lays with the owner of the site not the original poster.
Even if im well shy of the mark, such comments may not be the wisest thing to put up on PH even if there is no such law against it specifically. *cough* Brake "death threats" incident*cough*
Its a sad reflection on our current climate though
All imo of course
>> Edited by chief-0369 on Saturday 27th November 15:38
Such info can easily be found by googling and the thermite reaction is hardly the worst thing someone who is intent on causing destruction could make.
However, does this disscussion not fall foul of the terrorist laws. Something about not allowing a website to contain information that could be usefull to terrorists?
The subject has popped up on other forums I have frequented and most times (when the admins/moderators were clued up anyway) it was quickly removed as they seemed to believe legal responability lays with the owner of the site not the original poster.
Even if im well shy of the mark, such comments may not be the wisest thing to put up on PH even if there is no such law against it specifically. *cough* Brake "death threats" incident*cough*
Its a sad reflection on our current climate though
All imo of course
>> Edited by chief-0369 on Saturday 27th November 15:38
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