RE: Chris Goodwin: PH Meets
RE: Chris Goodwin: PH Meets
Thursday 3rd April 2014

Chris Goodwin: PH Meets

How does McLaren set about engineering fun? Chris Goodwin explains all



Following accepted stereotypes - and initial reaction to the 12C - the McLaren mindset matches that of the spotless and sterile MTC in Woking. Which is to say all about the machine, the numbers and an engineering mindset prioritising technology over soul. 'Fun' is not a word you imagine gets bandied about too much in Ron's world.

But appearances can be deceptive. Ron's not averse to mucking about when it suits him - humour might be going a bit far - and when we were first presented with the 650S we were told in no uncertain terms this was a car of heart and soul, as well as technology.

Control weights and feel matter to Goodwin
Control weights and feel matter to Goodwin
So in a lull on the 650S launch we collared McLaren's chief test driver Chris Goodwin and asked him how McLaren approaches fun? "Whilst you might imagine we're all about numbers there's also a surprising amount of detail behind making a car fun to drive," he muses. "What everyone is looking for is something they can drive as quickly as they want to drive it without it feeling intimidating, without it feeling too difficult. Difficult enough, but not too difficult."

How's that quantified in the development process though? "I know I've had fun with the car because I start smiling and I start driving faster. You laugh and say 'we're about there, we've cracked it' and there is something you can't measure precisely - it's not a nine versus a seven-and-a-half and quite often it's how you blend everything together."

23.79% more fun
It's easy to stereotype the McLaren working environment as one so focused on quantifiable objectives that the more subjective ones get forgotten - especially when you apply the motorsport mindset. Wrong, says Goodwin.

Experience of McLaren racers has been vital
Experience of McLaren racers has been vital
"Using racing as an example, in F1 you're never going to win a championship unless you've got a car a driver can drive. So if you look at the onboard shots of a McLaren at the Australian GP and if you had the opportunity to look at the onboard shots of a Marussia, let's say. One would be pretty bloody lively, I tell you, but at the back of the grid. And one would be much smoother to drive, the driver inputs would be much calmer but he'd be travelling a lot faster."

He's on a roll now.

"The other racing analogy you could use is we've been racing in sportscar and GT as long as the company has existed, and we've always sold cars to the customer racing teams too. You could engineer a car that's quick, be on pole position for your number one driver but you won't win a race that way. You can only win a race if your co-driver can drive that car and drive it quickly without making mistakes or using a couple of laps to get up to speed. You don't have to sacrifice driveability for speed - I think it's a myth that a supercar has to be difficult to drive. They're much more fun when they're not."

Pedal feel of McLaren M1 combined with...
Pedal feel of McLaren M1 combined with...
Back to the future
Subjective benchmarks for control feel and all-round driveability come from surprising places too. "Old racing cars. How fun were they?" he grins. "And that's one of the things we had in mind. We've got an old M1, it's a beast but fun. It moves around, nice brake pedal feel, nice gearshifts, so there's a good example. So that's in my head when we're pushing to get the brake pedal right; in my view the best brake pedal feel I've ever known is in a car from the 1960s and it hasn't got a brake booster, it's just basic kit. If you get a spongy brake pedal you need to get your brake cooling right. Right, done that. If you're getting flex, lack of brake pedal feel, it's because you've got mechanical flex in the system. Get that sorted, then you start looking at things like the brake booster characteristics. So for the 650S, same as the P1, I wanted to arrive at a brake pedal feel that was like driving a 1960s racing car. So relatively light inputs, not needing to absolutely stand on the brake pedal but linear. So there you go, a benchmark, 1960s race cars. Job done!"

His next example is more recent - the 2008 championship winning MP4-23 which, it's a relief to hear, was nicer to drive than it was to look at. "In terms of cornering performance, just that physical sense of bite and turn-in ability you get, that was the best racing car I've ever driven. I don't drive F1 cars that often but I could drive it round a race track and throw it around very, very quickly because you've got a balance on the limit and sheer turn-in performance that says to you 'you know what, I could have done that quicker.'"

...chuckability and fun factor of 2008 MP4-23
...chuckability and fun factor of 2008 MP4-23
That racing mindset comes through in a distinct lack of sentimentality for traditional technology though. "The guys who've been building cars for the last 50 years, they do it well, they know what they're doing and they've been working very hard but you reach a limit, you reach a ceiling of what works with the hardware that everyone's been using and that's why we've been a bit more adventurous." But only when it makes a worthwhile difference, the look on his face when he hears about the optional variable ratio steering for the Lamborghini Huracan saying much. "Why would you want that?" he asks, incredulous. From our chat at the tech launch for that car it'd seem his opposite number at Lamborghini Giorgio Sanna agrees, tactfully telling us it is "an enjoyable gadget" but he'd prefer the standard passive set-up.

Home team
In this day and age it's refreshing to hear someone so openly partisan too. "In the end we'll always produce driver's cars, that's a given," he says. "Yes we want them to look nice, we want them to sound nice, all of the things that maybe other manufacturers make a priority." Touche! "If you start with the driver you end up ticking all the boxes anyway but if you do it the other way round you don't necessarily do it. So you need great visibility and if you don't work that one out you're screwed - style it the other way round you can't suddenly get great visibility." Just like the SLR then? "That's a great example! I saw that shape and I thought 'that's interesting' before it was even a McLaren project. That's the shape we like, now let's make it into a car. And that's not easy to do."

As you'll have gathered if you watched Harris's follow-up tech talk with Goodwin after his P1 drive, his enthusiasm and clarity of thought make him thoroughly fascinating company. Driving the 650S you get a sense of his mindset too; for all the technology in the car that predictability and transparency in its controls and reactions are what leave the lasting impression. That and the sheer outrageous speed of the thing.


Additional photography of M1, MP4-23, etc by LAT Photo

 

Author
Discussion

suffolk009

Original Poster:

7,837 posts

194 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
I adore McLaren, I support the F1 team, deify Gordon Murray, admire Ron's turn of phrase and his single-mindedness, and dream of one day owning a road car.

They had some harsh - entirely subjective - criticism over the 12C, and they addressed that. But I really couldn't care less how much road-testers think their cars need to be more fun. I think their PR department may now be in danger of letting the journalists set their agenda.

I'm reminded of the time that Coca Cola had a CEO who became utterly obsessed with winning the Pepsi Challenge. That obsession led to "New Coke", which nearly ruined the company.

RacerMike

4,913 posts

240 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
They do seem a bit overly obsessed with beating the competition. Everything I read about McLaren seems to contain some kind of jibe at Ferrari or 'the competition' rubbishing their ability to do something!

Why bother? Just make cars people want to buy (which the seem to do) and let people form their own judgement rather than forcing opinionated BS about 'the others' down our throats.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

276 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
Personally, I totally switch off when I hear people talk about "passion" and "soul" and all that other bks. It is entirely subjective.

And when this stuff is trotted out by PR types who believe their own hyperbole, then I start to want to throw things. I swear I have a little sick rise up every time I read of "La Ferrari". It sounds like a parody, a pisstake on Italian cars, until I realised they were serious.

I will admit, the whole "fanboy" culture around certain supercar brands makes my teeth itch.

Personally, I think we should all be very thankful that makers like McLaren exist.

They offer a choice. A different kind of car to the Italian stuff. A different approach and a different ethos.

Choice is good. By definition, choice means that there will be plenty of people who choose something else. But there will also be people for whom the McLaren offering is more compelling. I am one of them. I would never, ever, ever, want a 458 or a Hurracan. But I want a 650s. Others will have the opposite view. Thats fine.

smile

benjj

6,787 posts

192 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
Having watched this chap Chris on Monkey's videos I really like the bloke. He's clever, sharp and clearly loves what he's doing and where the company is going. However, the McLaren techno-speak is doing my fking head in.

It is not the P1, the 650, the 12C etc, but 650S, P1, 12C blah blah.

Then there are the phrases they just make up and then look strangely at people who don't understand them. 'Torque fill'. What? You just fking well made that up. Don't look at me strangely, I didn't just make something up and do a Joey Mong face at someone who hasn't read my mind.

fk off McLaren PR wkers, speak English. You're a quality British firm making word class (and sometimes world beating) supercars brimming with tech and cool st.

Your over enthusiastic attempts at branding and made up management bingo words just make you look like fking morons.

lauda

4,422 posts

236 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
According to the commentator at Goodwood last weekend, that M1 belongs to Goodwin. My admiration for him ramped up a couple of notches when I heard that.

alftupper

98 posts

191 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
I remember seeing him race in the Formula First championship back in the 1980s , as basic a racing car as you can imagine . I think he may have won the championship .

Pistachio

1,116 posts

219 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
Chris Goodwin
Top Bloke, and probably the best job in the world.

Rich_W

12,548 posts

241 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
They do seem a bit overly obsessed with beating the competition. Everything I read about McLaren seems to contain some kind of jibe at Ferrari or 'the competition' rubbishing their ability to do something!

Why bother? Just make cars people want to buy (which the seem to do) and let people form their own judgement rather than forcing opinionated BS about 'the others' down our throats.
Indeed. It's the Alex Ferguson thing though. Not enough to be the best, got to tell the others they aren't as good. Obsessed with winning so much that Ron/whoever forget that there isn't an overall winner in the supercar game. Some will love the 12C, some the 650s (the blind madmen! wink ) some love the 458 and some like the GT2RS or the SLS AMG. There's just about enough room for those players to share the market. And tbh none of those are crap.

PunterCam

1,225 posts

224 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
benjj said:
Having watched this chap Chris on Monkey's videos I really like the bloke. He's clever, sharp and clearly loves what he's doing and where the company is going. However, the McLaren techno-speak is doing my fking head in.

It is not the P1, the 650, the 12C etc, but 650S, P1, 12C blah blah.

Then there are the phrases they just make up and then look strangely at people who don't understand them. 'Torque fill'. What? You just fking well made that up. Don't look at me strangely, I didn't just make something up and do a Joey Mong face at someone who hasn't read my mind.

fk off McLaren PR wkers, speak English. You're a quality British firm making word class (and sometimes world beating) supercars brimming with tech and cool st.

Your over enthusiastic attempts at branding and made up management bingo words just make you look like fking morons.
Absolutely agree. It's horrible.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

276 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
PunterCam said:
benjj said:
Having watched this chap Chris on Monkey's videos I really like the bloke. He's clever, sharp and clearly loves what he's doing and where the company is going. However, the McLaren techno-speak is doing my fking head in.

It is not the P1, the 650, the 12C etc, but 650S, P1, 12C blah blah.

Then there are the phrases they just make up and then look strangely at people who don't understand them. 'Torque fill'. What? You just fking well made that up. Don't look at me strangely, I didn't just make something up and do a Joey Mong face at someone who hasn't read my mind.

fk off McLaren PR wkers, speak English. You're a quality British firm making word class (and sometimes world beating) supercars brimming with tech and cool st.

Your over enthusiastic attempts at branding and made up management bingo words just make you look like fking morons.
Absolutely agree. It's horrible.
You've clearly never been to Maranello then.. They invented this stuff, this absence of humility.

McLaren seem to think that they need to be more "Italian". This is a mistake.

Stop it boys.

RacerMike

4,913 posts

240 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
PunterCam said:
benjj said:
Having watched this chap Chris on Monkey's videos I really like the bloke. He's clever, sharp and clearly loves what he's doing and where the company is going. However, the McLaren techno-speak is doing my fking head in.

It is not the P1, the 650, the 12C etc, but 650S, P1, 12C blah blah.

Then there are the phrases they just make up and then look strangely at people who don't understand them. 'Torque fill'. What? You just fking well made that up. Don't look at me strangely, I didn't just make something up and do a Joey Mong face at someone who hasn't read my mind.

fk off McLaren PR wkers, speak English. You're a quality British firm making word class (and sometimes world beating) supercars brimming with tech and cool st.

Your over enthusiastic attempts at branding and made up management bingo words just make you look like fking morons.
Absolutely agree. It's horrible.
+2 It's Ronspeak of the top variety. Bi turbine torque boost this (twin turbos), McLaren predictive dynamic handling algorithm that (Stability Control). Quit with the wowification of simple terms to sound like there's some kind of magical engineering witchcraft....

smilo996

3,821 posts

199 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
It is quite a pleasure to watch Harris P1 vid. Harris gets so much more excited about the P1 than zee 918, but in a good way, the car is tremendous and Goodwin, very relaxed but also alert, witty, really does seem to like what he is doing and is entertaining whilst being driven about by Harris chattering away on his left as if it is the first time he has been out with a journo in the car.

Well done McLaren, they have not got everything right but they have come damn close and their company culture is to be the absolute best. They did it with the F1, arguably the P1 and have many times been best in F1. I reckon we are not used to British people who really believe in what they do, are very focused, know their tech and want to succeed. However we are more than happy to have our German cousins bang on about three letter acronym tech for hours and lap it up.

I prefer to hear the words Woking, British, McLaren, Recardo and our carbon tub than hearing the dull repetition of people banging on about Porsche and defending them far beyond any logical arguement. Time to back the home team for once.

Now the 650S is out and the P1 sold out, the interest moves to what is coming out next year. 75-100K entry model?

DonkeyApple

69,734 posts

198 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
They do seem a bit overly obsessed with beating the competition. Everything I read about McLaren seems to contain some kind of jibe at Ferrari or 'the competition' rubbishing their ability to do something!

Why bother? Just make cars people want to buy (which the seem to do) and let people form their own judgement rather than forcing opinionated BS about 'the others' down our throats.
I agree but suspect that the obsession with beating the competition has been the singular focus and driver of the entire company ever since it existed. It's the backbone of their DNA, their beating heart. It's what defines them and what makes their road division different from all others.

I bet they even have the best toilet cleaners in the industry.

A few more British companies could take a leaf out of their book if I'm honest.

isaldiri

24,761 posts

197 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
toppstuff said:
Personally, I totally switch off when I hear people talk about "passion" and "soul" and all that other bks. It is entirely subjective.

I will admit, the whole "fanboy" culture around certain supercar brands makes my teeth itch.

Personally, I think we should all be very thankful that makers like McLaren exist.

They offer a choice. A different kind of car to the Italian stuff. A different approach and a different ethos.

Choice is good. By definition, choice means that there will be plenty of people who choose something else. But there will also be people for whom the McLaren offering is more compelling. I am one of them. I would never, ever, ever, want a 458 or a Hurracan. But I want a 650s. Others will have the opposite view. Thats fine.
You'll be glad to know that Mclaren are very obviously positioning themselves along the lines of Maranello now.

Look at the press pack of the 650 when it was first released. It was all about 'emotion', 'drifting', 'flair', aggresive styling etc..... Can't blame Mclaren though, Ferrari are the industry leader by a mile and one can see why they have gone down that route. Mclaren might have started out with the 12C trying to differentiate their product and offering a choice but they have had a fairly major change of tack after the press had a go at the 12C.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

276 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
isaldiri said:
toppstuff said:
Personally, I totally switch off when I hear people talk about "passion" and "soul" and all that other bks. It is entirely subjective.

I will admit, the whole "fanboy" culture around certain supercar brands makes my teeth itch.

Personally, I think we should all be very thankful that makers like McLaren exist.

They offer a choice. A different kind of car to the Italian stuff. A different approach and a different ethos.

Choice is good. By definition, choice means that there will be plenty of people who choose something else. But there will also be people for whom the McLaren offering is more compelling. I am one of them. I would never, ever, ever, want a 458 or a Hurracan. But I want a 650s. Others will have the opposite view. Thats fine.
You'll be glad to know that Mclaren are very obviously positioning themselves along the lines of Maranello now.

Look at the press pack of the 650 when it was first released. It was all about 'emotion', 'drifting', 'flair', aggresive styling etc..... Can't blame Mclaren though, Ferrari are the industry leader by a mile and one can see why they have gone down that route. Mclaren might have started out with the 12C trying to differentiate their product and offering a choice but they have had a fairly major change of tack after the press had a go at the 12C.
Mmmm. This worries me. I think you are right. A lot of people seem surprisingly immune to this nonsense.

Mind you, maybe McLaren still have a long way to go. Maranello has broken through the stratosphere in terms of cringeworthy, hyperbolic, irony-free, masterbatory nonsense with the "La Ferrari" - that car has PR speak that sets new standards in toe-curling horror.

I can but hope that the chaps from Woking won't let it get that bad. smile


leedsutd1

770 posts

215 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
put Ron a Mercedes amg or R8 he might grasp what fun is

Ipelm

522 posts

221 months

Thursday 3rd April 2014
quotequote all
god that Mclaren lot even make talking about fun....boring, a page full of empty words and a page full of yawns.

Edited by Ipelm on Thursday 3rd April 21:58

Thundersports

707 posts

174 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
Chris did a round of British F3000 in the early 90s......

HereBeMonsters

14,180 posts

211 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
I love how the "geeks" are pushing the latest wave of British engineering. Suck on that Clarkson.

jetfire

38 posts

165 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
smilo996 said:
75-100K entry model?
Please let it be McLarens answer to the Alfa 4c with a 3.5 V8