Public Liability?
Discussion
Hi all, am in need of some help for my son please.
He proudly started his first job this week, cleaning cars at a car supermarket, working hard and enjoying it (as much as a 16 year old lad can enjoy hard work!)
Anyway, he came home with his contract yetsterday and it turns out that he is self employed for the cleaning contractor that the car people use. Well they say sub contractor, but then say he is self employed. We have explained to him about registering with the tax office, sorting out his NI and saving money to pay his tax bill in Januaury when he does his self assessment. All that bit I am pretty clued up on.
What I am not so clued up on for him is the aspect of insurance, the only place where it is mentioned on the contract is with regard to driving and insurance, seeing as he is only 16, this doesn't apply to him as he doesn't even have his provisional yet (although looking at the paperwork, they want drivers to be over 19 years old!). There is mention of PL insurance, but again, it seems more to relate to on road incidents (they say the requirement is £10m, and they can provide this and charge him for it)
My fear is him dropping the sponge, picking it and a stone up and managing to scratch a car! He needs insurance of some kind, and I also have a fear that they may shaft him on it.
So, does anyone know if it's just simple PL that he needs, does anyone know any companies that deal with this (in case its cheaper/better to have his own policy), can he get a policy at 16? And what sort of price are we looking at? I have tried googling, but am struggling to find what he needs etc. Most of what I am finding is with regard to people getting injured.
Any help would be very much appreciated, many thanks
He proudly started his first job this week, cleaning cars at a car supermarket, working hard and enjoying it (as much as a 16 year old lad can enjoy hard work!)
Anyway, he came home with his contract yetsterday and it turns out that he is self employed for the cleaning contractor that the car people use. Well they say sub contractor, but then say he is self employed. We have explained to him about registering with the tax office, sorting out his NI and saving money to pay his tax bill in Januaury when he does his self assessment. All that bit I am pretty clued up on.
What I am not so clued up on for him is the aspect of insurance, the only place where it is mentioned on the contract is with regard to driving and insurance, seeing as he is only 16, this doesn't apply to him as he doesn't even have his provisional yet (although looking at the paperwork, they want drivers to be over 19 years old!). There is mention of PL insurance, but again, it seems more to relate to on road incidents (they say the requirement is £10m, and they can provide this and charge him for it)
My fear is him dropping the sponge, picking it and a stone up and managing to scratch a car! He needs insurance of some kind, and I also have a fear that they may shaft him on it.
So, does anyone know if it's just simple PL that he needs, does anyone know any companies that deal with this (in case its cheaper/better to have his own policy), can he get a policy at 16? And what sort of price are we looking at? I have tried googling, but am struggling to find what he needs etc. Most of what I am finding is with regard to people getting injured.
Any help would be very much appreciated, many thanks
The contract calls him a sub contractor, it says he is self employed and so is liable for his own tax and NI, it also states that he is free to offer his services to other companies (that bit surprised me), he doesn't get holiday/sick pay etc. The mention a nominal charge for branded workwear and cleaning solutions.
They have some sort of system where they book the work, which each week will generate an invoice that they get paid on.
I'm just more worried about any accidental scratches to any cars that he cleans, and would like him to be covered for that. Been looking at places that do valeting insurance, but they only seem to go upto £5m and include driving and employers liability (which he doesn't need unless he 'subs' someone to do a day for him is he's ill or something)
They have some sort of system where they book the work, which each week will generate an invoice that they get paid on.
I'm just more worried about any accidental scratches to any cars that he cleans, and would like him to be covered for that. Been looking at places that do valeting insurance, but they only seem to go upto £5m and include driving and employers liability (which he doesn't need unless he 'subs' someone to do a day for him is he's ill or something)
speedchick said:
The contract calls him a sub contractor, it says he is self employed and so is liable for his own tax and NI, it also states that he is free to offer his services to other companies (that bit surprised me),
That bit will be the bit their legal team have decided makes him a self employed subcontractor as he is a professional car washer who happens to mainly be working with them. Du1point8 said:
£10 million public liability for cleaning cars?
f
k me thats a bit much for making sure he doesnt scratch cars or injure the public.
that's what it said, but like I say that bit was lumped in with driving, licence requirements and mention of on road incidents, hence why I an not that sure about it just being in the advent of scratching with the cleaning stuff f
k me thats a bit much for making sure he doesnt scratch cars or injure the public.
edc said:
Is he pushing thier trolley, using their uniform, using the equipment and materials which they pay for, in an area of car park they tell him to be in, taking a break when they tell him he can, working the hours they tell him?
The contract states that they will charge a weekly amount to pay for the clothing, cleaning materials etc, so far they have provided him with a coat, pair of trousers and a high viz vestI genuinely cannot see how he can be required/expected to carry insurance, and certainly not for 10 million.
Looks like an example of a employer taking advantage of people and trying to pass the buck. I genuinely can't see how they can pass this on to him.
(I am an insurance broker by the way. I can check for you if you like but from the top off my head it will be about £250 or so per year as a Valeter)
Looks like an example of a employer taking advantage of people and trying to pass the buck. I genuinely can't see how they can pass this on to him.
(I am an insurance broker by the way. I can check for you if you like but from the top off my head it will be about £250 or so per year as a Valeter)
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 4th April 14:33
Yes it is over minimum wage, they have set a day amount of £45, so it comes in at just over £5 an hour, which for a 16 year old is pretty good really, that's why he was so proud of himself getting the job, and it's full time, which is hard to get these days.
There's always a sting in the tail isn't there, and he has been trying for ages to get something.
There's always a sting in the tail isn't there, and he has been trying for ages to get something.
desolate said:
I genuinely cannot see how he can be required/expected to carry insurance, and certainly not for 10 million.
Looks like an example of a employer taking advantage of people and trying to pass the buck. I genuinely can't see how they can pass this on to him.
(I am an insurance broker by the way. I can check for you if you like but from the top off my head it will be about £250 or so per year as a Valeter)
Thank you, I think he is bringing his copy of the contract home tonight, so will have another look at it over the weekend, when I find time when I am not working!Looks like an example of a employer taking advantage of people and trying to pass the buck. I genuinely can't see how they can pass this on to him.
(I am an insurance broker by the way. I can check for you if you like but from the top off my head it will be about £250 or so per year as a Valeter)
Edited by desolate on Friday 4th April 14:33
My Nephew worked for a carpet fitting firm under similar circumstances. He wore their uniform and got picked up in their van and they supplied the work but he was "self employed". They did deduct the first 20% of his wages for tax (which I think is a legal requirement in situations like this"
Regarding the P/L cover, I am of the understanding that the incident such as the "sponge drop" you described would not be covered under P/L Insurance as I understand that these policies exclude the item being worked upon and therefore would only be useful if someone tripped over his bucket/sponge/pressure washer cable etc. Its been a while since I did commercial insurance and so I do stand to be corrected. I would suggest you seek advice from a broker (insurancejon seems to be the man) and don't just assume that P/L = full cover.
Regarding the P/L cover, I am of the understanding that the incident such as the "sponge drop" you described would not be covered under P/L Insurance as I understand that these policies exclude the item being worked upon and therefore would only be useful if someone tripped over his bucket/sponge/pressure washer cable etc. Its been a while since I did commercial insurance and so I do stand to be corrected. I would suggest you seek advice from a broker (insurancejon seems to be the man) and don't just assume that P/L = full cover.
speedchick said:
Thank you, I think he is bringing his copy of the contract home tonight, so will have another look at it over the weekend, when I find time when I am not working!
Being a rather sad case, this has been winding me up. I don't really do "insurance" anymore, being more on business development/mangement side.When checking his contract do a bit of googling regarding labour only sub contractors / bona-fide subcontractor. there are a few good articles that are very easy to understand.
Looks like they are simply trying to avoid a bit of tax, ni and EL insurance.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff