Second Hand Prices
Discussion
Call me stupid but why on earth are people selling 3R,s at silly prices.A new 3R is circa 54k on the road so 45k used would show a 9k saving over list on new,thats not insignificant.To me thats a fantastic saving and in the case of most cars in the for sale section they are as good as new,some with only 2-3k miles.At sub 40k for a 2k miles car with all the options thats just cost the owner 7 grand per 1000 miles(wow!).If a serious used car punter has 40k for a used example trust me he will also have 45k for the same car.Why do it you are just devaluing one of the greatest cars ever made.
>>> Edited by UFO 2 NOB on Saturday 27th November 20:27
>>> Edited by UFO 2 NOB on Saturday 27th November 20:27
IMHO Noble's are "feel good" cars, and in winter you tend not to "feel good".
Elises, Ferrari's and other "slightly non practical" cars all seem to suffer from what I've seen.
Add to that the low volumes and the fact that people's personal circumstances change and I think you'll have your answer.
J
Elises, Ferrari's and other "slightly non practical" cars all seem to suffer from what I've seen.
Add to that the low volumes and the fact that people's personal circumstances change and I think you'll have your answer.
J
You need to look at what dealers re sell them for, not at some of the joke prices they offer you just to see how desperate you are.I have known of cases where they have offered low 30ks when they have similar cars up for 46/47k.With this type of car its the quality of the car you need to look at not the source.The only difference between private and dealer is a warranty.These are generally insurance backed and could be bought by an individual anyway.I like to buy new but if i were in the market at the moment i think i would be drawn towards some of the nearly new cars.I think there are buyers that will still go for new with differences of 8/9k but at 20k that has to open up the eyes of new car buyers to look at used.That cannot be good in the long term for any of us as it might lower factory sales which will have a knock on effect to the marque.
>> Edited by UFO 2 NOB on Sunday 28th November 13:47
>> Edited by UFO 2 NOB on Sunday 28th November 13:47
Unfortunately the price of anything comes down to the price someone is prepared pay it. If the dealers have customers waiting then they offer good money.Clearly there are too many Nobles available at the present,perhaps the factory should increase lead times on GTO3's. Supply and demand and all that.
Ok if it works for you,but the point i am making is this.Have 3r,deposit in for GTC,thinking about M14 so i am a loyal Noble customer.Now if 6/9 months after launch the M14 drops in comparisom to 3R it will do about 30 grand.Well ill have me one of those please and factory loose me as new car customer because i buy used.Thats not good for the future is it?
Interesting debate this... I'm about to take the plunge on an M400 and have the same concerns BUT, if you want to drive a car that gives you the sort of 'bang for bock' as any Noble you need to put aside the depreciation debate as you will surely lose out. In fact, I can't think of any car (at any price!) that's available relatively quickly, delivers supercar performance and will hold it's value??? The little time I've spent thinking about residual values has led me to the M400 over the 3R as there don't seem to be any on the used car market today and there's nothing to replace it on the horizon (like we need more that 425bhp!?!) so the residuals should be better than if I were to buy a new 3R today. In fact, if I were in the market for a 3R there are some bargains in the market today. No, as has already been said, take a 3 year view, drive it and enjoy :-)
UFO 2 NOB said:It's down to "do you feel lucky", or "will you get burnt".
Ok if it works for you,but the point i am making is this.Have 3r,deposit in for GTC,thinking about M14 so i am a loyal Noble customer.Now if 6/9 months after launch the M14 drops in comparisom to 3R it will do about 30 grand.Well ill have me one of those please and factory loose me as new car customer because i buy used.Thats not good for the future is it?
If you drop your M14 deposit now, and wait, who's to say that the early M14's won't have a premium. Certainly they aren't comparable to an M12 (long run for 3+ years now), and supply will be limited to just 50 a year.
Factor that in that you might not be able to find the car you want in the spec you want, and it *will* have had someone else in it (for me, there is nothing quite like knowing that it is your name first on the registration document).
As I said, if you want to try and play the "depreciation" game IMHO you will, in the long term, get burnt. That shouldn't stop anyone doing it if they think they can "beat the system", but supply and demand, like casino's, will always outsmart/bite people in the end, however there are many many example of where people have got it right, and many examples where the "punters" have got it wrong (XJ220, MF1 anyone.....)
So, do you feel lucky over the M14, or do you just not worry about it? After all, my 2.5l is still worth 55%+ of what I paid for it as a dealer trade in 3 years later, so that's pretty "normal" for a car, and probably rather exceptional for the area that the Noble plays in.
Saying that, the X5 was worth a whopping 82% of what we paid for it after 2 years 3 months - but then when we replaced the 3.0 with the 4.4 after the 3.0 got nicked we still had to pay a similar %age for a 2 year old 4.4i, so we didn't "win" at all.
If we had moved to a Ford Escort we would have been quids in, but as we stayed in the BMW range we just "rolled over" the finance and didn't worry about it.
Again, it comes down to do you just want to buy a new Noble every few years, or just "make a buck" on a single transaction I suppose? If you are going to stay in the marque then everything is relative, and low resell values means "cheap next car", high resell values means expensive "next car".
J
I think you just have 2 types of buyers:
1. The early adopter types, want the best of any product type, can afford the premium of new. want THEIR exact spec and aren't unduly concerned about the resale (although it hurts if your as tight as me!). As joust rightly says, it's nice to have your name on a shiny new V5. You also get the 12 month FACTORY warranty.
2. Those who want a real performance bargain but don't want to pay the new price.
So as i see it, trying to resell a 2nd hand 3R for £5k off list, means it's still too expensive for a type 2, and type 1's will just buy new for the few grand extra. You therefore have to drop down to level that type 2 can afford to find a market, and that's probably somewhere closer to 10k or 12k off list judging by how long some of the 3R's have been for sale.
I sold my 2 year old M12 for £28k privately because that's all i could get for it after a couple of months effort! Dealers offered me £27k max and that was against a new M400! It was about £24k for a straight sale!! Admittedly the "classic 2.5" suffered from the arrival of the 3R, but the 3R is now suffering from the M400. The Welsh noble dealer has a 2004 1800 mile M400 at £56k........
No different to TVR, Marcos or Lotus though.
1. The early adopter types, want the best of any product type, can afford the premium of new. want THEIR exact spec and aren't unduly concerned about the resale (although it hurts if your as tight as me!). As joust rightly says, it's nice to have your name on a shiny new V5. You also get the 12 month FACTORY warranty.
2. Those who want a real performance bargain but don't want to pay the new price.
So as i see it, trying to resell a 2nd hand 3R for £5k off list, means it's still too expensive for a type 2, and type 1's will just buy new for the few grand extra. You therefore have to drop down to level that type 2 can afford to find a market, and that's probably somewhere closer to 10k or 12k off list judging by how long some of the 3R's have been for sale.
I sold my 2 year old M12 for £28k privately because that's all i could get for it after a couple of months effort! Dealers offered me £27k max and that was against a new M400! It was about £24k for a straight sale!! Admittedly the "classic 2.5" suffered from the arrival of the 3R, but the 3R is now suffering from the M400. The Welsh noble dealer has a 2004 1800 mile M400 at £56k........
No different to TVR, Marcos or Lotus though.
joust said:
So, do you feel lucky over the M14, or do you just not worry about it? After all, my 2.5l is still worth 55%+ of what I paid for it as a dealer trade in 3 years later, so that's pretty "normal" for a car, and probably rather exceptional for the area that the Noble plays in.
J
How much have you spent on the car fettling it and upgrading it though.....
gizard said:As people should know, "upgrades" rarely gain any value to the car,
How much have you spent on the car fettling it and upgrading it though.....
However, if you remove the engine that I blew up and paid for as it was my fault, then it's still worth 50% of the value I've paid for it / subsequently spent on it - not bad in my book!
J
abrook said:
I got my M12-3 on a four year finance deal with a 55% residual. Me thinks in two years time it might be a toss up decision on sending it back. Which will have meant I spent over 35grand on renting the car for 4 years. I'm still none the wiser if this was a good move or not.
Did you have fun?
I'm always a bit surprised at these 'investment/depreciation' cost discussions, but only 'cos there are no ways to genuinely win at the depreciation game unless you are either a car dealer, or you get incredibly lucky and buy the first off the production line (having placed your deposit years in advance) of what turns out to be a car that everyone wants (like the new Mini).
If you like cars (and I love them), then lets face it, they will cost you money - the majority of the cost being depreciation. If you part exhange a car for another new one of the same make, then you don't see the real costs, but aside from that, most cars depreciate 25 to 30% in their first year. If it's a £20K car, then that'll be a £6K loss in the first year, if it's a £50K car, then that's £15K loss.
Seems to me that Nobels don't do so badly on the depreciation front. Infact, I wish they did depreciate more, as I'd be driving one by now if they did - I was keeping an eye on Stuhs!
I don't want to put my hard earned money (I don't buy on borrowed cash) into something that will loose thousands - I prefer to buy a secondhand car that I feel has lost most of its money already - especially if it's another 'fun' car for the weekend. When Nobels are down to £15 to £20 I'll be buying one.
If you like cars (and I love them), then lets face it, they will cost you money - the majority of the cost being depreciation. If you part exhange a car for another new one of the same make, then you don't see the real costs, but aside from that, most cars depreciate 25 to 30% in their first year. If it's a £20K car, then that'll be a £6K loss in the first year, if it's a £50K car, then that's £15K loss.
Seems to me that Nobels don't do so badly on the depreciation front. Infact, I wish they did depreciate more, as I'd be driving one by now if they did - I was keeping an eye on Stuhs!
I don't want to put my hard earned money (I don't buy on borrowed cash) into something that will loose thousands - I prefer to buy a secondhand car that I feel has lost most of its money already - especially if it's another 'fun' car for the weekend. When Nobels are down to £15 to £20 I'll be buying one.
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