So I paid a little visit to see BBS wheels being made.......
Discussion
I thought I may as well have a big post as my first post!
I thought some of you might be interested in this so I hope it's OK in putting it up? If not, just fire me a PM!!
A couple of months ago, I was lucky to get a tour of BBS Motorsport GmbH in Germany to see how their wheels were made, to say it was a cool day out is a big understatement!! Anyway You can read the details of the visit here:
http://www.autolifers.com/insight-bbs-motorsport-g...
http://www.autolifers.com
But I thought I would tell you guys a few more things that weren't in the article too
BBS Motorsport GmbH is a separate entity to the BBS as we know it. They are high end/low volume manufacturers who only do motorsport, GT and specialist project wheels. These are the go-to guys when Bugatti needed wheels manufactured for the veyron!
(I was actually told that they're a pain in the arse to make since they have about 21 different designs and have to change tooling with each order.).
Porsche engineers required additional weight savings for the optional “Weissach Package” for the 918, so they approached the BBS enginers and designers for a lightweight solution. Now considering that the rear wheel on the Porsche will be 21″ x 12.5, it’s incredible to think that these wheels weigh similar to 18″ variants of many branded “lightweight” wheels, about 11kg's! Porsche then make the rest of the wheels for the "normal" 918 (if you could call it normal).
The company still repair and restore these classic wheels for customers too (and it's surprisingly cheap at about €50 per mag center!!). Out the back they had rows upon rows of the classic designs, it was ridiculous! When I asked "why", Erich shrugged and said, "what better marketing too do you need then to see 40 year old wheels still taking part in motor racing", the guy has a point!
But it was a brilliant day out, it was meant to be for about 2 hours but I was there for 4 in the end talking with Erich about the business, looking at prototype carbon wheels, talking about the crazy story about the BMW M1 procar (Lamborghini were contracted to build it initially!!) and everything in between!
Hope you like the article and pics!
I thought some of you might be interested in this so I hope it's OK in putting it up? If not, just fire me a PM!!
A couple of months ago, I was lucky to get a tour of BBS Motorsport GmbH in Germany to see how their wheels were made, to say it was a cool day out is a big understatement!! Anyway You can read the details of the visit here:
http://www.autolifers.com/insight-bbs-motorsport-g...
http://www.autolifers.com
But I thought I would tell you guys a few more things that weren't in the article too
BBS Motorsport GmbH is a separate entity to the BBS as we know it. They are high end/low volume manufacturers who only do motorsport, GT and specialist project wheels. These are the go-to guys when Bugatti needed wheels manufactured for the veyron!
(I was actually told that they're a pain in the arse to make since they have about 21 different designs and have to change tooling with each order.).
Porsche engineers required additional weight savings for the optional “Weissach Package” for the 918, so they approached the BBS enginers and designers for a lightweight solution. Now considering that the rear wheel on the Porsche will be 21″ x 12.5, it’s incredible to think that these wheels weigh similar to 18″ variants of many branded “lightweight” wheels, about 11kg's! Porsche then make the rest of the wheels for the "normal" 918 (if you could call it normal).
The company still repair and restore these classic wheels for customers too (and it's surprisingly cheap at about €50 per mag center!!). Out the back they had rows upon rows of the classic designs, it was ridiculous! When I asked "why", Erich shrugged and said, "what better marketing too do you need then to see 40 year old wheels still taking part in motor racing", the guy has a point!
But it was a brilliant day out, it was meant to be for about 2 hours but I was there for 4 in the end talking with Erich about the business, looking at prototype carbon wheels, talking about the crazy story about the BMW M1 procar (Lamborghini were contracted to build it initially!!) and everything in between!
Hope you like the article and pics!
Edited by ciaran mk1 on Tuesday 15th April 08:44
AlexIT said:
Very interesting!
I drive past them from time to time, I guess such visits must be organized ahead, right?
Yes it's not simply a case of turning up on the day I'm afraid!I drive past them from time to time, I guess such visits must be organized ahead, right?
I was at the nurburgring 24 hour last year and got talking to the head guy at BBS. I told him I would love a visit and maybe write an article so we exchanged contact details and got it arranged. (It doesn't always work out this easily though!)We had arranged to visit in the off-season when things were a little quieter.
Of course you're asking somebody to take time out of their working day so it's a case of being patient!
I'll be going to TMG Europe in Cologne to get a tour of their facilities next month too. REALLY looking forward to that one! All going well, I should be there to see the LMP1 team in preparations for Le Mans. I should be able to see their rally programme and the really cool museum they have too.
But yeah, Erich was a wealth of information. It was really interesting to hear the history of the company. Bet you didn't know that BBS made surf boards!
Klaus Brandt was a big fan of windsurfing so said to himself "well if we make body parts, why not give a go at making surfboards!". It was a short production in the 80's but they are still a few around from what I hear! That progressed into body kits (BBS kit for MK1, Mk2 golfs etc. ) and the BBS Steering wheels which are rare gems: (I actually have one of these at home!)
I'm hoping to get the complete story from Erich about the M1 Procar and verify with BMW to see if I could publish it because it was a real cracker! Most people know that it was a case of "building the car too late" and the regulations changing at the same time which meant that the M1 was relegated to it's own make series. But it was the involvement (or more importantly, the lack of....) from a certain tractor manufacturer in St. Agata that led to it!
But yeah, Erich was a wealth of information. It was really interesting to hear the history of the company. Bet you didn't know that BBS made surf boards!
Klaus Brandt was a big fan of windsurfing so said to himself "well if we make body parts, why not give a go at making surfboards!". It was a short production in the 80's but they are still a few around from what I hear! That progressed into body kits (BBS kit for MK1, Mk2 golfs etc. ) and the BBS Steering wheels which are rare gems: (I actually have one of these at home!)
I'm hoping to get the complete story from Erich about the M1 Procar and verify with BMW to see if I could publish it because it was a real cracker! Most people know that it was a case of "building the car too late" and the regulations changing at the same time which meant that the M1 was relegated to it's own make series. But it was the involvement (or more importantly, the lack of....) from a certain tractor manufacturer in St. Agata that led to it!
ciaran mk1 said:
I'm hoping to get the complete story from Erich about the M1 Procar and verify with BMW to see if I could publish it because it was a real cracker!
I don't know that it is the same story but I'll share this one on the M1 Procar:In order to meet the start of the season, BMW needed 40 cars made quickly so split the work between Lamborghini and a small formula two team in Woking called Project Four.
Project Four were just finishing their final car when BMW phoned to say that they had just discovered that Lamborghini had only made 1 car.
BMW begged Project Four to build the remainder and paid them a big bonus to ensure it was done.
The owner of Project Four was Ron Dennis and he used the money he made out of that deal to buy a stake in McLaren.
ciaran mk1 said:
irocfan said:
you've set the bar high with such a good first post - the only way is down now!
I'll try and keep the bar high then!!But I've been on the site for nearly 2 years, don't know why I never post here actually! More of a browser so to speak
ralphrj said:
I don't know that it is the same story but I'll share this one on the M1 Procar:
In order to meet the start of the season, BMW needed 40 cars made quickly so split the work between Lamborghini and a small formula two team in Woking called Project Four.
Project Four were just finishing their final car when BMW phoned to say that they had just discovered that Lamborghini had only made 1 car.
BMW begged Project Four to build the remainder and paid them a big bonus to ensure it was done.
The owner of Project Four was Ron Dennis and he used the money he made out of that deal to buy a stake in McLaren.
Yes that's very close to what I heard, except the Ron Dennis part I didn't know about!In order to meet the start of the season, BMW needed 40 cars made quickly so split the work between Lamborghini and a small formula two team in Woking called Project Four.
Project Four were just finishing their final car when BMW phoned to say that they had just discovered that Lamborghini had only made 1 car.
BMW begged Project Four to build the remainder and paid them a big bonus to ensure it was done.
The owner of Project Four was Ron Dennis and he used the money he made out of that deal to buy a stake in McLaren.
Disclaimer: Below is only what I heard and I want to get the facts correct before I write something up on it or approach BMW about a possible interview and feature on the M1!!
What I was told was that BMW commissioned Lamborghini to build the cars in St. Agata. They were supposed to work through the finer chassis details and consult with BMW on the finished article and then begin production in Italy. Deals were signed and money changed hands (for tooling etc.) but no cars were made (or at least one car was made which would confirm your story)!
When asked about the money, Lamborghini told the Germans, "it has been misplaced". So BMW were left high and dry! This was around the time Lamborghini were going through their messy financial periods so it's thought that this money was used to plug a gap in finances. Either way, it resulted in a huge budget loss for the M1 project and a loss of significant time before production started.
But basically that unholy mess halted the production of the car to the extent that it was built just when the homogolation rules had changed for group 4, meaning the car couldn't compete in the championship it was originally designed and built for.
When BMW complained to the FIA, they said "well you can rebuild them all to comply with specs, or else go and do your own race series". Since that was all they could do, the "BMW M1 Procar Championship" was born! I dunno if it was out of sympathy or a big exchange of money, but the Procar championship was run alongside the F1 championship of '79 and '80m, with some F1 drivers racing in both!
Many of the cars were later converted to group 4 spec but I think they only got 2-3 championships before they were "out of regulation". It's widely thought that if the mess with lamborghini didn't happen, they would have been running away with many more group 4 championships in the late 70's.
(And just because I love the livery, here's a pic of the BASF M1!)
Anyway, the BBS connection is that one of the engineers that worked on the M1 procar then went to work for BBS. His name was Martin Braungart and worked for Ford on the Capri programme before being snapped up by BMW for the M1 project. After that project was finished, he went to BBS.
This guy was hugely influential in both BMW and BBS circles as he is credited with being one of the main drivers behind BMW's M division and also credited for creating the RS/RM and LM multispoke layouts which BBS are so closely associated with today.
But I want to send a few emails to see can I get the full story verified first
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